Warp Spider Posted October 1, 2003 Posted October 1, 2003 MonkeyGirl, How many fights have you ever seen just be stand up fights? espcially with multiple attackers? In my experience when it is against multiple attackers they try to topple the person, then kick/stomp them on the ground. Noone from the large group wants to go to the ground with the guy because: A) Then they're blocking their buddies from striking; B) they run the risk of taking "friendly fire" from their buddies who try to strike anyway; C) "diffusion of responsibility:" they don't want to be MORE involved than anyone else in their group lest they be held more responsible should something go wrong. (like the cops show up)TKD and any other high kick empashising art would be usless. after the first Kick, your on the ground weather you hit first guy or not. then what your going to do?A standup fighter will generally be quite agile and able to avoid takedowns easier than one might think, given room to manuever. It's true that it's easier to close the distance than it is to increase the distance, but I think that that is offset by the relatively greater speed and agility of a person who trains primarily standup fighting. Paladin - A holy beat down in the name of God!
Venezolano Posted October 1, 2003 Posted October 1, 2003 First, you would NEVER want to be in a mutople attackers situation, the best option is to leave there. What you say is tru,e in tht situation most probably you're not going yo look for a takedown so you be grappling on the ground because his buddies could kick you, etc, etc. BUT, most times you DON'T CHOOSE it, you go there, and there if you don't know how to be the safest possible, you will get hurt VERY bad. Valencia - Venezuela.
Akima Posted October 1, 2003 Posted October 1, 2003 "In my experience when it is against multiple attackers they try to topple the person, then kick/stomp them on the ground" Yea, it's beaten to be beaten on the ground by a group of people. "A standup fighter will generally be quite agile and able to avoid takedowns easier than one might think, given room to manuever. It's true that it's easier to close the distance than it is to increase the distance, but I think that that is offset by the relatively greater speed and agility of a person who trains primarily standup fighting." Just curious how many fights you've been in? Where's all that speed an agility going to get you when four guys rush you take you to the ground and start kicking the S%*! out of you. There was this guy at my HS talked like that. was top ranked in the state, really great TKD guy, He was excellent. Took on four kids at once thinking he was bruce lee. Got taken to the ground and beaten until the cops came. I have seen worse in bar fights. The fact is thwere are very few real life situatiions where you'll be in an evironment to move like you'd like to.
Warp Spider Posted October 2, 2003 Posted October 2, 2003 "In my experience when it is against multiple attackers they try to topple the person, then kick/stomp them on the ground" Yea, it's beaten to be beaten on the ground by a group of people.I'm not sure what that means, but what I was saying is - the mutliple attackers will probrably not attempt to grapple you. This was in response to your comment "you will get grabed and you will grapple." I was presenting my experience, which is that in fact you will not be grabbed, instead striken."A standup fighter will generally be quite agile and able to avoid takedowns easier than one might think, given room to manuever. It's true that it's easier to close the distance than it is to increase the distance, but I think that that is offset by the relatively greater speed and agility of a person who trains primarily standup fighting." Just curious how many fights you've been in? Where's all that speed an agility going to get you when four guys rush you take you to the ground and start kicking the S%*! out of you. There was this guy at my HS talked like that. was top ranked in the state, really great TKD guy, He was excellent. Took on four kids at once thinking he was bruce lee. Got taken to the ground and beaten until the cops came. I'm not saying that either. You're taking my comments out of context. I never said that you could dodge four guys, but a group of guys is not likely to all try a simultaneous takedown on you, and even if they did... perhaps you hadn't considered the notion that a good standup fighter can probrably run quite a bit faster than their attacker. It's not difficult for a good striker to avoid takedowns in a non-enclosed environment because they can move away quickly. If they charge, fall back or counterattack. If there's multiple people charging, run to gain some distance, then bust out the subguns. If that's illegal in your area, swap subguns with mustard gas grenades and you're good to go. (Banned by the geneva convention, but still not actually illegal in most places)I have seen worse in bar fights.And I've seen even worse in fire fights. Being outnumbered 4 to 1 will rarely turn out in your favour, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. What is your alternative?The fact is thwere are very few real life situatiions where you'll be in an evironment to move like you'd like to.That varies wildly with "how you'd like to," but I haven't had any serious problems with not being able to move. Paladin - A holy beat down in the name of God!
Treebranch Posted October 4, 2003 Posted October 4, 2003 Yeah, but does BJJ even have multiple attacker defenses in it's curriculum, I've never seen it. That would be cool to have as an addition to NHB tournaments a multiple attacker match, let's see which MA would be best for that. I bet you it wouldn't be BJJ, no offense. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
TJS Posted October 5, 2003 Posted October 5, 2003 Yeah, but does BJJ even have multiple attacker defenses in it's curriculum, I've never seen it. That would be cool to have as an addition to NHB tournaments a multiple attacker match, let's see which MA would be best for that. I bet you it wouldn't be BJJ, no offense. I dont think there is any stlye that could consistently beat multiple opponets in a ring fight. Assuming they were of the same size or close to it. But that dosent mean i dont think it's possible to beat more than one person in a street fight..
Venezolano Posted October 5, 2003 Posted October 5, 2003 It makes me laugh how many people says that their styles can deal with "mutiple attackers" and that BJJ doesn't, when in a ring they can't deal with neither one guy... Valencia - Venezuela.
TJS Posted October 5, 2003 Posted October 5, 2003 It makes me laugh how many people says that their styles can deal with "mutiple attackers" and that BJJ doesn't, when in a ring they can't deal with neither one guy... thats not really fair either, in a ring fight you are fighting a trained opponet who is 100% prepeared, I think most would agre your chances of beating more than 1 trained attacker is slim to none. fortunatly most people are not trained. But i Know what your saying..alot of people use the multiple attacker thing as an excuse way too often.
kenpo4life Posted October 5, 2003 Posted October 5, 2003 Venezolano, I know that you are not really close to the US but listen. Habia un maestro de Muay Thai que iba a su carro despues de divertirse con amigos. Tres hombres le acerco y querria su dinero. El maestro mando los tres a la hospital con heridos serios. Hay mucha gente dispuesta a pelear, pero no pueden muy bien. Recibir punos, codos y patadas pueden cambiar la mente de mucha gente sin problema, verdad? If my survival means your total destruction, then so be it.
Warp Spider Posted October 6, 2003 Posted October 6, 2003 It makes me laugh how many people says that their styles can deal with "mutiple attackers" and that BJJ doesn't, when in a ring they can't deal with neither one guy... Well, in "the ring" usually both people have practiced BJJ at least some. Would it then be fair to say that half the time a BJJ practitioner goes into the ring he/she loses? That argument is no more valid than saying Karate is no good because in a karate-only tournament most of the guys end up losing. I hate to seem skeptical, but to my knowledge the defense in BJJ relies on manipulation of the other persons body, to remove their ability to fight back. How would one go about doing this to multiple attackers? Paladin - A holy beat down in the name of God!
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