ValeTudo Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Interesting article. I didn't see it anywhere else on the forum, so if it's a repeat I apologize. It's by Frank Benn, and MMA instructor here in Austin. I'd love to hear everyone's comments! ---------------------------------- A Multiple Opponent Scenario With BJJ -- Some Surprises for the Uninitiated I've heard a lot of things over the years about BJJ not being any good for multiple opponent situations, etc., and for the most part I agree. This goes back several years before the first UFC (1993) when everybody "else" finally heard about it and wanted to learn it. One thing you have to understand is this. In terms of handling multiple unarmed opponents, the BEST person to handle this is a good grappler who can box. Boxing alone is not as good, since multiple opponents tend to grab, crowd you, control, and hit. They don't all just stand at range and tee off. Secondly. I've trained in boxing, kickboxing, traditional Asian punching and kicking arts, Filipino martial arts, wrestling, and submission grappling for about two decades. The most advantageous position in all of fighting to have your opponent in (barring none) is the knee on chest position. It's the fish in a barrel position. If I were fighting two game opponents (guys that just don't go down from the first good punch), I'd want one of them on his back under my knee where I could REALLY hurt him. Yet, in this position I am standing, mind you. One person is completely incapacitated, where I can knock him out in about one second (equals 5 to 7 solid punches on the chin which WILL NOT miss because he can't move or defend). I would turn to where the other guy is in front of me, do in his friend, and the guy that's still standing can't get to me in time without stepping on his own friend. To go around, he uses up that precious second I just used to knock out his body, and now it's his turn. I'm already standing when in a high knee on chest, and I can stay low and take the other guy down, grab his kick if he tries that and take him down, or go right back to stand-up fighting, now mano a mano. This is a scenario I've practiced, taught, and applied for many years now, and anybody skilled in BJJ will have this going for him. It's one of the best ways to deal with two opponents -- i.e. where one of them is completely unable to hit you, and the other is not able to get to you in time. As I said before, the guy on his back is knocked out in a second or so, and you never went to the ground. Even an intermediate takedown artist can put a larger opponent on his back and kneel on his chest, post the other leg 45 degrees off the shoulder, and shoot the fish in the barrel. If the standing opponent is behind you, then you switch to the other side around the head (takes about 1/3 second), OR you abandon the position altogether and take your standing man out. You have about 2-3 seconds to do it before your knee-on-chest guy gets back to his feet -- an eternity compared to the amount of time you'd have if he had never been on his back. I generally chuckle to myself when I see some of the assumptions people make about arts they haven't trained in, but enough is truly enough. I'm considered a pretty fast heavyweight as a boxer, and even I'd prefer to put one of my two opponents on his back to knock him out. This comes from having had to deal with both opponents standing in the past, and knowing certain dynamics that make this difficult. Frank Benn Integrated Arts Austin, Texas P.S. And if you need to run away, knee on chest allows for this as well. Like I've said before, ground grappling does not necessarily mean YOU go to the ground -- only that HE does.
TJS Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 great article, altough Striking is most important tool against multiple opponets grappling is usually a neccesary tool..people sometimes for get how much damage a throw can do on a hard surface? Valetudo-where do you train in Austin?
ValeTudo Posted July 9, 2003 Author Posted July 9, 2003 TJS, I just started training at Cardella's for BJJ. I used to train Vale Tudo with some friends at UT before I graduated. I also train boxing at Bruce's KO Boxing. What about you? (I noticed you were from Austin)
TJS Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Krav Maga, and I should be starting BJJ classes on the 15th of this month I belive. Phil is going to start offering them at our school. were you at SHOWDOWN II ?
ValeTudo Posted July 9, 2003 Author Posted July 9, 2003 Nah, I didn't get to go! I know a Krav Maga guy won his fight that night. Was that someone from your school?
Treebranch Posted July 10, 2003 Posted July 10, 2003 That was an interesting article, but was he talking about 2 guys with no training? Also he's a heavy weight so I assume his hits are damaging especially if the attackers are of average size. Well if that works for him, it works for him. That's great. There are other ways of dealing with that, that are much better. Generally BJJ schools don't teach multiple attacker defenses. San Soo is much more effective with multiple attackers, and I'm not dissing BJJ O.K. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
ValeTudo Posted July 10, 2003 Author Posted July 10, 2003 Treebranch, How would San Soo deal with multiple attackers? (In a more effective way as you stated) -- What would the general strategy be?
Treebranch Posted July 10, 2003 Posted July 10, 2003 Well you want to move to a place where the first attacker will be in front of the second, to line them up without them knowing. This makes it hard for the second attacker to attack. When you hammer blow the first one in the nose breaking it and front kick him in the groin, take him down while still standing of course and stomp his head. Now his buddy will either come in and attack or will attend to his friend. San Soo trains you for this kind of stuff BJJ doesn't to my knowledge. No disrespect to BJJ it is a great grappling art. We used to train this kind of stuff every class 2 to 3 people attacking at once. They all could do whatever they wanted to. So you didn't know what was going to happen, and after awhile you learned that your alignment is crucial. I encourage anyone to study San Soo it is one of the most street effective MA out there. It is completely brutal and vicious. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
ValeTudo Posted July 10, 2003 Author Posted July 10, 2003 How would you line them up like that? What method do you use? The BJJ article mentioned getting one guy in knee-on-stomach position in order to line them up correctly. What would you use? Your strategy (though I disagree with it) sounds interesting so far. I'm interested in how you line them up one behind the other... Particularly if there's more than 2??
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