Sumo vs. Other arts

[Cybren]

I doubt it would be easy to grapple someone huge. Alot of the locks would work, but its harder to get into them.

 

As for striking, its said obese people have a higher pain tolerance, and from experiance, that's true..

[Tibby]

I doubt it would be easy for someone that huge to grapple on the ground! Little guys have the greatest advitance most of the time.

 

And it is more due the the fact that they FEEL pain less, not that they can take more. More padding around the muscles and organs.

[Shorin Ryuu]

Sumo has always been a ritualistic sport in the native religion of Shintoism in Japan, never a real fighting art. From its inception, it has always been this way.

[Tibby]

Do you know how many other MA's fall under the same catagory you guy mentioned!?

 

Ok, is there is a ritualistic sport, but it is also a fighting art. Before modern times, it was much more voilient, they have made it mroe of a sport, but it is an Martial Art. Go a head, tell Sumotori he isn't a Martial Artist. Tell him he is just a pawn for some old religion, not a fighter. He and anyone that knows a thing or two about the pratice of Sumo will disagree.

[Warp Spider]

In my experience, it is very difficult to grapple a really big fat guy. I grappled a few times with this one guy, I don't remember how heavy but I'm pretty sure he was well over 300 pounds. Basically all he tried to do is grab you and fall on you... and if he's successful it's very difficult to escape. I don't think I can bench press 300 pounds, let alone doing so while flat on the ground. After a while I had no choice but to give up because I could barely make him rock back and forth on top of me.. and this is without him actually grappling me on the ground, just casually plopped down across my body.

 

I don't think I'd classify Sumo as a martial art, but it's the same as many things. No matter how good of a martial artist you may be, you are not likely to beat someone twice your size, let alone someone four times your size.

 

Out of everyone on this forum, I suspect there is less than 5 people (possibly none) that could dislodge a 600 pound man draped across them on the ground. Evading the sumo may be an option, but I once saw on TV a guy who tried that (a smaller guy, like 150 pounds) and the sumo just picked up him and hurled him out of the ring, so it's not a surefire thing.

[Shorin Ryuu]

Do you know how many other MA's fall under the same catagory you guy mentioned!?

 

Ok, is there is a ritualistic sport, but it is also a fighting art. Before modern times, it was much more voilient, they have made it mroe of a sport, but it is an Martial Art. Go a head, tell Sumotori he isn't a Martial Artist. Tell him he is just a pawn for some old religion, not a fighter. He and anyone that knows a thing or two about the pratice of Sumo will disagree.

 

I'm not denying the effectiveness of Sumo wrestlers in tossing people around or defending themselves in some situations, but I'm saying there is a difference. Take fencing, for example, it stemmed from real life sword battles and later became a sport. Or Kyuudo, which stemmed from real-life training to use archery in battle, but now isn't used in that capacity nowadays. Sumo never originated as anything other than what I mentioned before. The match itself is even only a small part of the ritual, and most Japanese watch it for all the pre-match rituals as much as the actual match. Like I said, don't get me wrong, there are plenty of sumo wrestlers that I would not like to anger in a dark alley, I just don't consider it a true martial art. To me, martial arts must have origins in true fighting or on the battlefield, hence the term, martial. That is just my opinion, anyway.

[Tibby]

What about Boxing? Boxing isn’t a Martial Art? It wasn’t made in a war, it was always a sport.

 

Muay Thai, the History of Muay Thai is almost identical to that of Sumo, 2 kings battling it out for there fate. Similar to the story of Sumo’s to Gods. Then, there is the story of the POW who when a few rounds with several guards to gain his freedom. Sports. Does that not make them martial arts?

 

Weapons like the Nunchucks and Sias where originally Farming implements, so does that mean they are not Martial Arts Weapons?

 

So, with do you classify as a Martial Art? Something that was forged in the heat of battle? What about Field Throwing event’s such as the Javelin Throw, hammer throw, and shot put. These events stemmed from battle, so does that make them martial arts?

 

See,

 

And most of Japan watch it for the Sport, not the small amount of Pre-Tournament Rituals. That is like saying We American’s watch the Superbowl because we like the Halftime show!

[Warp Spider]

I think a lot of people just watch it for the commercials.

[Shorin Ryuu]

Weapons like the Nunchucks and Sias where originally Farming implements, so does that mean they are not Martial Arts Weapons?

 

So, with do you classify as a Martial Art? Something that was forged in the heat of battle? What about Field Throwing event’s such as the Javelin Throw, hammer throw, and shot put. These events stemmed from battle, so does that make them martial arts?

 

See,

 

And most of Japan watch it for the Sport, not the small amount of Pre-Tournament Rituals. That is like saying We American’s watch the Superbowl because we like the Halftime show!

 

Actually, sai were never farming implements, they were always weapons (don't believe that mess about it being a pitchfork, its not true). It was brought to Okinawa from China and used mainly as a police weapon. Thats beside the point, though. They used nunchaku and sai in fighting and trained in them to fight in real situations. That is why I said true fighting OR the battlefield.

 

I actually know a lot of Japanese people personally and one of my majors is Asian history/culture, so yeah, I know that the pre-match ritual is as important if not more than the match itself.

 

Boxing has always been a sport, but look at how violent it got (Ancient Greece) and it turned into pankration (sp?). What separates the two is that Sumo started out purely as a ritual. You don't see people take sumo for self-defense, do you?

 

And no, I don't consider boxing martial arts either. It is a fighting sport, but not a martial art. I'm not denying their ability to fight, but it isn't a martial art in my opinion. Before people go off on me, I used to be a boxer in college, so I know what its like.

 

Also, Olympic events. Yeah, the javelin throw obviously came from training to use it in combat, but the way they train in it now is very different. In kyuudo (archery) for example, there is a lot of focus on the accuracy and things like that, whereas javelin is simply distance. However, shooting might be considered a martial art due to its different emphasis. But I would be more inclined to say that combat pistol competitions are closer to martial arts then just sport competitions. You get my point, I think.

[Tibby]

Don’t believe that mess about it never being and farming utensil. The Sai-like weapons from China had much over blades. If anything, the Jutte came from the Chinese weapon. But we agree the yare all weapons.

 

I’ve been a Sumo fan for a while now, and no one I know how is a Sumo fan places the sport over the Ritual, seeing as the sport is part of the Ritual.

 

So, you classify the Shot Putt as a Martial Art, but not Boxing?

 

Yeah, I’m looking into Asian History as a minor. PM me sometime.