kicking with the ball of your foot or the instep?

[Shotokan_Fighter]

kicking with your toes?...... i wouldnt ever kick with my toes, that has a high chance of breaking a toe.

[Sho-ju]

In Shogen ryu we kicked with our toes. The first time on the makiwara I busted my big toe nail, blood everywhere.

 

http://www.geocities.com/koshinrin/

 

Here's the link to the dojo where I trained in shogen ryu, I can say the toe kick hurts a lot.

 

Sho-ju

 

P.S. Look at the sensei Pilons funky toes...it takes a while to develop the toe kick.

[niel0092]

kicking with your toes?...... i wouldnt ever kick with my toes, that has a high chance of breaking a toe.

 

I wouldn't either, but people do kick that way as Sho-ju said he does. Just a different way of doing things and that's what I like to hear about

 

So Sho-ju, what did you do leading up to that ill fated toe kick on the makiwara? How far had you progressed in your training? What type of conditioning did you do for your toes aside from the makiwara?

[AndrewGreen]

Toe tip kicks can be done, they're not really that hard. But I don't think kicking a makiwara with one is a good idea... But then I don't think hitting a makiwara with anything is a good idea.

 

Start with focus mitts, body shields or wavemasters. Something fairly soft with a bit of give. Start light and work up.

 

They're easier with shoes on though.

 

Mostly it's just a novelty skill, it has no real value to be able to do that barefoot...

[Sho-ju]

kicking with your toes?...... i wouldnt ever kick with my toes, that has a high chance of breaking a toe.

 

I wouldn't either, but people do kick that way as Sho-ju said he does. Just a different way of doing things and that's what I like to hear about

 

So Sho-ju, what did you do leading up to that ill fated toe kick on the makiwara? How far had you progressed in your training? What type of conditioning did you do for your toes aside from the makiwara?

 

We started by rolling the tips of big toe on the floor and adding more pressure. Then we would stand in front of the makiwara with our knee up in mae geri and just lightly kick the board with the toe (the second toe wrapps over the top of the big toe). The problem is my toe went numb from all the reps and so I started to kick harder and busted my toe. I'm not sure when they start doing this in shogen ryu/shorin ryu, I already had a shodan in shotokan when I trained with him and so I was taught from day one. I kick with my toes only when I have shoes on. I want to have feeling in my toes when I'm older... In shogen ryu all front kicks are done with the toe in kata except for one kick with the ball of the foot. Taba Sensei is the head of that org. and he was a student of Nagamine Sensei. Pilon Sensei on the link above likes to give a demo of a toe kick by kicking you with the ball of the foot and then with the toe. The toe feels like a knife.

[SaiFightsMS]

Toe kicks are done. Usually only by those who have done a lot of conditioning first. And it is an advanced technique. It is one of those things that really is a "PLEASE DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME".

[Hohan-1]

It's funny to see so few people that know toe kicking is the way that most Shuri Te styles have always done it. Shotokan is ShuriTe as is about 75 % of all modern karate (at least a derivative of it), and in Funakoshi's first publication "Karate Jutsu" he talks about toe kicking. The stupidist thing you could ever learn for self-defense is the ball of the foot kick. How the hell you gonna contact your target with the ball of the foot with shoes on? Toe kicking makes perfect sense even in a modern context. I would say that it is dangerous for your opponent if they catch a toe in the throat or eye while doing kumite, but kumite is slap tag not fighting.

 

The Orthodox version of Shorin Ryu teaches to always kick with the toes. We use big toe makiwara for conditioning. No need for anything harder than some carpet against a rubber pad that is anchored to a concrete wall. I won't get into the technique. That is up to your instructors to teach you. The Savate guys have been toe kicking forever, because savate was a street fighting art originally used by French sailors who wore shoes as do most modern people. Traditional techs, real ones, are like this- devious and smart. Most karate and wu shu is 100% for physical fitness and fun, not for real fighting.

 

The best areas to use for kicking on the street are the shins, heel, top of the foot and toe tips. Forget what your sensei's tell you, because ball of the foot contact is for barefoot sparring only, unless you wear flexible assed shoes. I prefer Florsheim's, tennys and timbos. Peace....

[Shotokan_Fighter]

what i was trying to say about toe kicking is when your barefooted i think its useless and to dangerous for your toes. my sensei tells us that to kick with the tip of our shoes (toes) in a street fight beacuse you cant use the ball of your foot, but with out shoes on id prefer to kick with the ball of my foot.

[AndrewGreen]

So why don't you train in shoes if you are training for a real fight where you will be wearing them?

[Valithor]

Why can't you use the ball of your foot when wearing shoes?

 

I have had my students wear shoes before in class to illustrate the differences involved. Even if you're not highly focused on the street-fighting element of martial arts, its still an interesting variation for training.