major_motoko Posted July 7, 2003 Posted July 7, 2003 In shotokan I was taught mawashigeri with the instep. In Wado I have been taught to hit with the ball of the foot, like Maegeri. It's simple physics.. the smaller the area the greater the pressure exerted.. that's why we all learn to punch with the front two knuckles, not the whole fist, as it more powerfull. I can't really understand how instep or shin can be more painfull than the ball, as the force will be spread out over a greater area. I'm sure a powerfull Muay Thai kickboxer is a very powerfull kicker indeed, and I would never wish to be kicked by one, but physics is still physics! I have been kicked with the instep, sure it hurts, but it's more of a slap than being kicked right on your leg bone by the ball of the foot.. that felt like someone hitting my leg with a hammer! Now, I've never been kicked intentionally with the shin (only when someones instep missed) but perhaps that does hurt more than instep.. I couldn't say unless I had been kicked by someone trained to kick with the shin. Just my two pence motoko 2nd Kyu Brown Belt, Wado Ryu Karate-do"Daniel-san best karate still inside!" Mr Myagi
Warp Spider Posted July 7, 2003 Posted July 7, 2003 Well, you have to look further into the physics - the force is greater, but over a smaller area. A sledgehammer is more effective at taking down a wall than a handgun, even though they might have the same force when Rate of Fire is considered. Likewise a sword can be a more effective weapon than an ice pick, though arguably an ice pick will go much deeper. A needle piercing right through your hand with tremendous force is not that bad compared to having someone stomp on your hand. Affecting a larger area will stimulate more nerve endings. For that reason, (and a few others) sometimes you want to affect a larger area, instead of focusing all of your force. Paladin - A holy beat down in the name of God!
major_motoko Posted July 7, 2003 Posted July 7, 2003 yes agreed.. i guess it depends on what your desired outcome is. I think ball of the foot to the ribs or organs would be more effective at breaking / causing damage.. but shin or instep to legs, arms, head or groin could have more of an overall impact, shock to the system etc. Good discussion! motoko 2nd Kyu Brown Belt, Wado Ryu Karate-do"Daniel-san best karate still inside!" Mr Myagi
G95champ Posted July 7, 2003 Posted July 7, 2003 The shin gives you IMO a better chance of hitting the person which makes it a better version. The instep if missed by being to far away you end up hurting your foot because you don't have any support on you toes. The ball of the foot will drive deeper and prob. does cause more pain however its a harder kick to land because you have shortend your kicking motion. I think the ball of the foot lends its self to targets more so. Such as the knee cap, rips, spine. As to where the Shin/Instep you have an area you can hit and do damage such as the leg, body, back, head. (General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory."
Shotokan_Fighter Posted July 7, 2003 Author Posted July 7, 2003 it's more of a slap than being kicked right on your leg bone by the ball of the foot.. that felt like someone hitting my leg with a hammer! thats correct, i agree with all of your opinions. Both would work effectivly, me personally i wouldnt want to do a round kick and hit with the shin, beacuse i watched this one kick boxing fight and he did a round kick to the legs with the shin, and the guy blocked it with his leg and he busted his shin right in half. so to me id much rather kick with the ball of my foot or instep. whatever works at the moment ill use it. "When I fight, I fight with my heart,and soul. My heart, and soul is Shotokan Karate."Shotokan_fighters creed"karate has to come natural in a fight, if you have to think about using karate in a fight, you will loose the fight"3rd kyu brown belt - shotokan karate
TJS Posted July 7, 2003 Posted July 7, 2003 it's more of a slap than being kicked right on your leg bone by the ball of the foot.. that felt like someone hitting my leg with a hammer! thats correct, i agree with all of your opinions. Both would work effectivly, me personally i wouldnt want to do a round kick and hit with the shin, beacuse i watched this one kick boxing fight and he did a round kick to the legs with the shin, and the guy blocked it with his leg and he busted his shin right in half. so to me id much rather kick with the ball of my foot or instep. whatever works at the moment ill use it. that shin break was a freak example..it happens 1 out of 100000. the resason you use your foot is because you proabably dont use leg kicks? Do you spar with leg kicks? If you did you would proabably start ussing your shin.
Shotokan_Fighter Posted July 7, 2003 Author Posted July 7, 2003 TJS wrotethat shin break was a freak example..it happens 1 out of 100000. oh i didnt know that, i though it would happen more often. if thats the case then yeah i would kick with my shin. the only way i would is if the person is close to me and i know i will hit him with the shin, but he has to be closer than normal. "When I fight, I fight with my heart,and soul. My heart, and soul is Shotokan Karate."Shotokan_fighters creed"karate has to come natural in a fight, if you have to think about using karate in a fight, you will loose the fight"3rd kyu brown belt - shotokan karate
AndrewGreen Posted July 7, 2003 Posted July 7, 2003 The bones of the instep and foot are much smaller then the shin bone, kicking with the ball of the foot or the instep has a greater chance of breaking something then kicking with the shin... Also, I do know of anothoer fighter that did something similar, it was due to a stress fracture that was there before he fought. I'd guess something similar in that clip. Guys kick through baseball bats 2 & 3 at a time with there shin, it is not easy to break. The small bones of the foot however, break fairly easily. Andrew Greenhttp://innovativema.ca - All the top martial arts news!
Sho-ju Posted July 7, 2003 Posted July 7, 2003 In Shotokan I was taught instep to the head for reach and ball of the foot to the ribs. (mawashi geri)
niel0092 Posted July 7, 2003 Posted July 7, 2003 Depends on the target and the kick you use. I can see good times to use all three. Anyone ever see kicks done with the point of the toes? Seems like a good way of messing up your foot if you dont do it right but a potential for deep puncture wounds. "Jita Kyoei" Mutual Benefit and Welfare
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