REAL Wing Chun vs Wrestling video.

[Kirves]

Thtas Boztepe's old master.

 

Yes. And the reason for the fight we are discussing. The feud between Cheung and Ting started from Cheung not accepting that he wasn't the choice as he felt he had studied under Yip Man longer period of time (or something like that) and should have been given leadership.

But lots of people cliam Grandmastership, and their are several WC branches.

 

Yes, but now we are actually talking about a single branch: that of Yip Man. The styles of Ting and Cheung are now sub-branches of that single branch. Yip Man was the GM of this branch as given to him by his own GM. He apparently passed the torch of this branch to Ting. But the branch got fragmented into several small branches bickering with each other (sad politics).

 

If we start talking about the actual differing branches of WC then we must see Ip Man's as a single branch and the other branches come outside of it. We can easily see it because the different branches have a very different curricula too! Ting and Cheung both teach basically the same curricula of the three unarmed forms, two weapons and wooden dummy form. True, Ting has made modernizations and that's one of the reason Cheung chose the name "Traditional" for his style as he teaches identically to Yip Man, without "modernizing". But if we look at other branches of WC they are entirely different. Some have dozens of forms, dozens of weapons. Some have no forms at all, but only technique categories and drills. And so on. Both Cheung and Ting are just two different organizations teaching the same branch of WC in their differing ways and methods.

 

EDIT 1: For more info on different WC branches, there are lots and lots of excellent articles and pages at: http://www.wingchunkuen.com/

 

EDIT 2: And about Grandmastership... More confusion comes from the fact that Ting's Wing Tsun organization uses Grandmaster as one of the normal ranks, so now they have Grandmasters who are not GM as in "head of a style" but as in "master instructor" or something. Ting himself is now Great Grandmaster (GGM). Geesh...

Edited July 12, 2003 by Kirves

[Beer-monster]

Of course then Leung Ting stabbed Boztepe in the back. Not the behaviour of a Grandmaster either.

 

Perhaps something is worng with WC if it produces men such as these as their leaders.

[Kirves]

Of course then Leung Ting stabbed Boztepe in the back.

 

Here's what Emin thinks of the incident, and about Leung Ting and Kernsprecht (Ting's number one student, the leader of European section of Ting's org):

 

http://www.ebmas.net/interview.htm

Perhaps something is worng with WC if it produces men such as these as their leaders.

 

Some of the people who studied under Yip Man got into this situation. Sad. There were Bruce Lee, William Cheung, Leung Ting and they all were people of high technical caliber. Now Cheung says he's the one and only "true" WC GM, Ting says he was the last in-door student of Yip Man and got the torch, Cheung talks a lot about his affiliation with Bruce Lee, so he might get some leverage from that and so on. All in all, it's a mess.

[Beer-monster]

Agreed. Similar vthings happedned to Shotokan though. So maybe its a human thing not an MA thing?

[Kirves]

its a human thing

 

I would say so!

[Prodigal Son]

As we say here in London, it's a Long T'ing.

 

That video didn't show a WC fighter - he was disgraceful.

 

And everyone's a GM these days - but even Yip Man never claimed to be that...

 

And yes, WC does have grappling techniques - it's just not taught at the early stages.

 

I reckon Elvis would do Bruce Lee.

 

>>>PS<<

 

(Grand Poobah Of Nuthin')

[Drunken Monkey]

hmmm, yip man himslef never claimed to ba grandmaster. in hk he was always training and discussing wing chun with others in his generation of wing chun and none of these people claimed be grandmasters either.

 

on the whole william cheung/leung ting/successor thing. would you say that a classical man like yip man would chose a student over his own son/s to be the successor of his wing chun?

 

strange to note that neither of his sons claim to be grandmaster... but then enough people call them that anyway.

 

if you look into both william cheungs and leung tings stories you will see a lot of inconsistancies. all i say is do not believe all that you read or what you are told until you do your own research.

[Drunken Monkey]

and back to the wrestling vs wing chun thing...

 

i have no doubt that a wing chun guy who has not trained to fight against a wrestler is going to lose.

 

you guys are right, a lot of wing chun people have too much faith in what their sifu tells them.

 

the problem is that most of them will never know how to handle any other martial art because like or not wing chun teaches you to respond to wing chun so the moment you come up against a non wing chun guy your trained reflex actions won't have the same effect.

 

my first light sparring with a tkd guy ended really badly. as did my first spar with a shaolin guy. won't even mention my first bout with a grappler...

 

but then this applies to all fighting arts. if you don't train to defend/fight against a wrestler then what hope do you think you'll have in the ring against one.

 

on a personal note, why does wing chun get so much flak in these discussions...? would a karateka or shaolin guy get the same response?

[Kirves]

would you say that a classical man like yip man would chose a student over his own son/s to be the successor of his wing chun?

 

His son had a very long gap in his wc training. He wasn't near the kind of mastery required to get the torch.

[Punchdrunk]

Jason Delucia - a Wing Chun fighter is 32-19-1 in Mixed Martial Arts competition.

 

I don't think I have ever seen him use a trapping technique or anything that doesn't look like the standard MMA blend of striking and grappling but he does claim to have learned his skills in kung fu.

 

Another case of the school and the fighter not the style.

 

WC doesn't catch any more flack than any other MA that makes the ridiculous "technique too deadly for the street but not effective in the ring" claim that is a red flag that something is rotten in the state of MA Denmark. It is such a notorious response that it is the subject of ridicule in MMA circles.