ValeTudo Posted July 10, 2003 Posted July 10, 2003 Most students are quite satisfied with the results they see at the WC school. They first go there and lose to everyone. Then they learn and start getting a few strikes in. Then a new batch of beginners come in and they notice they can beat the crap out of them. So they feel confident from their personal experience at the school. When you train for 10 years, you get to spar against dozens of new batches of untrained average joes and you see how good you become during the years. You also see how difficult it remains to beat those ahead of you. I find it easy to understand how someone is satisfied with just that confidence. That's a really flawed comparison. When I was growing up, I attended a TKD McDojo (not calling TKD McDojo.. Just saying my particular one was). When I first got there, I was beaten a lot. Then as we continued I started beating beginners. Of course, first time I got into a fight at school I got killed. Why? Because fighting there, and fighting for real were two different things. Everything changes the first time you get hit hard. That's why I like MMA. You get hit hard and for real, because the ultimate goal is to knock your opponent out or to make him/her quit. Not to score points. So saying that you beat WC beginners (as a WC advanced person) doesn't mean a thing when you're talking about self-defense. Remember, the beginners are merely trying to learn the techniques taught at the school. On the street you won't fight someone who is trying WC techniques, you'll fight someone who is trying to hurt you. So I'll stick with my original question. How does one know WC works, if they've never seen it work in a real, live fight? Maybe some have. But until someone gives me some proof, I remain doubtful. The only Wing Chun fight videos I've seen are: Wing Chun vs. Kyokushin (Wing Chun guy is knocked out) Asbel Cancio vs. Dave Beneteau (Wing Chun guy is TKOed) Dave Levicki vs. Johnny Rhodes (Wing Chun guy is TKOed) Scott Baker vs. Jason Delucia (Wing Chun guy is TKOed) Dave Levicki vs. Rickson Gracie (Wing Chun guy is submitted) Are there any others I can look at that might change my mind?
ValeTudo Posted July 10, 2003 Posted July 10, 2003 Oh, and I guess I saw the video of Emin Boztepe (Wing Tsun) vs. William Cheung (Wing Chun) fighting. Mainly just flailing around randomly on the ground. That wasn't a very impressive display of self-defense either...
Beer-monster Posted July 10, 2003 Posted July 10, 2003 Emin Boztepe had trained in grappling arts and did what grapplers do. He took Cheung down coz he knew he couldn't deal with it the floor. Mind, body and fist. Its all a man truly needs.
JohnnyS Posted July 10, 2003 Posted July 10, 2003 The fight between Cheung and Boztepe was appalling. It was hardly "grappling" at least not by any decent standard. BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black BeltTKD - Black Belt
Beer-monster Posted July 10, 2003 Posted July 10, 2003 True it wasn't pleasant to look at. But from what I saw I think I could make out Boztepe trying a choking Keza Gatame. Never seen a real martial arts challenge (y'know like the old days) thats not been part of some sport. But that did not look like the conduct of any true martial artist never mind a sifu and a supposed Grandmaster. And doesn't really refelect the practise of Wing Chun. Mind, body and fist. Its all a man truly needs.
JohnnyS Posted July 11, 2003 Posted July 11, 2003 It does pose the question though, if two "WC masters" don't do WC in a fight against each other, then how applicable is it for the normal person, or don't these guys have enough faith in their art to use it ? BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black BeltTKD - Black Belt
TJS Posted July 11, 2003 Author Posted July 11, 2003 It does pose the question though, if two "WC masters" don't do WC in a fight against each other, then how applicable is it for the normal person, or don't these guys have enough faith in their art to use it ? exactly..thats the point of the video.
Kirves Posted July 11, 2003 Posted July 11, 2003 Most students are quite satisfied with the results they see at the WC school. So I'll stick with my original question. How does one know WC works, if they've never seen it work in a real, live fight? Maybe some have. But until someone gives me some proof, I remain doubtful. I wasn't talking about changing your mind. I was talking about what is enough to convince most of the WC students to stay confident in their art. If you remain doubtful, that's not their problem.
Beer-monster Posted July 11, 2003 Posted July 11, 2003 Maybe the behaviour of two reprehensible egomaniacs has no bearing on nthe use of Wing Chun! Mind, body and fist. Its all a man truly needs.
Kirves Posted July 11, 2003 Posted July 11, 2003 Maybe the behaviour of two reprehensible egomaniacs has no bearing on nthe use of Wing Chun! Perhaps!
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