ValeTudo Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 WC training usually includes stuff like multiple opponents, weapons disarms, tactics (positioning relative to environment), law issues (what to say/yell before, at startup, during and after the fight to avoid getting prosecuted) and such things most sport arts don't cover at all. If WC hasn't proven itself in the ring against one fighter in unarmed combat. Why would you assume that it would be effective against multiple opponents or weapons? It goes to figure that you'd want to figure out how to defeat one person before you try to beat three at a time.
Kirves Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 A quote from this site: http://www.wrestlingkingdom.com/ufc/ufcmain.htmlDevelopment of Rules: Originally the rules were very limited. No biting, no fishhooking (to nostrils, mouth, etc). Also, eye gouging, and throat strikes have always be prohibited. Other rules were later added such as no small joint manipulations (fingers, toes) and no hair pulling or groin shots. Time limits were also added.
Kirves Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 It goes to figure that you'd want to figure out how to defeat one person before you try to beat three at a time. True. In self-defence (as opposed to sport) arts, you first learn how to defend against one untrained attacker. Then you learn how to defend against multiple untrained attackers. You don't fight against untrained attackers in the ring. And most people aren't afraid that they are mugged or robbed in the streets by the latest UFC champ, so many of us are content with learning how to beat an untrained average joe who is probably even drunk when attacking us.
ValeTudo Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 (edited) Fish hooking didn't become illegal until after UFC 6 (where Tank Abbott used them in the finals against Oleg Taktarov). The only original rules were no biting, no eye gouging. For a better explanation of the history of the rules read Brawl or the Gracie Way where it goes into more detail. Getting it from a wrestling website probably isn't the best way to go. Agreed, that you aren't likely to face a trained fighter on the streets. However, you are likely to go to the ground. IF (I emphasize if) this is an example of how WC does on the ground, I think you'd be in for a rude awakening on the "street." Edited July 9, 2003 by ValeTudo
ValeTudo Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 http://sfuk.tripod.com/events_02/ufc_ukpress.html Here is a press release that details the rules that Zuffa instituted. "No groin or throat strikes" was a Zuffa rule.
Kirves Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 I have never had to go to the ground even I have fought both in civil and on duty as a security guard. I have never been attacked by a trained fighter. I have never gone to the ground. I have never been attacked by a sober person. Of course it depends on where you live and where you work or hang around, but many of us can succeed with stand up stuff. Not everyone is walking the streets afraid for their lives. Most people who study martial arts never get attacked on the streets, it is the "what if" situation that may or may not come. If you want to be absolutely sure, then you have to also wear bullet proof vests, cut-proof gloves, a helmet, a handgun and drive an armored car. You can never be 100% safe so you draw the line personally how much you are going to fear and that's it. I never saw throat punches in any UFC I saw. Granted I haven't seen all of them, but if they were legal, you'd think people would use it at least some times. You know what happens when a pro fighter punches to the throat, perhaps several times? Even people who aren't pro fighters, often kill their opponents with that.
Kirves Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 Here is a press release that details the rules that Zuffa instituted. "No groin or throat strikes" was a Zuffa rule. I think we need a better source than that, as that release doesn't at all say that he added those rules. It only says he set up the new MMA rules which included these things. It doesn't say they didn't exist in the previous rules. Maybe we can find a set of the older rules somewhere on the net?
ValeTudo Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 I'm happy that you've never been faced with a ground situation. It's not fun to be there! I don't fear for my life anywhere I go. I'm not too worried about self defense. I like to fight, so I train MMA. However, if you do go to the ground..what then? Do you not prepare for it, simply because you haven't gone there? That's what confuses me about some. I don't have a blind faith in any art. That's why I cross-train. But I would never take anything for granted. I never saw throat punches in any UFC I saw. Granted I haven't seen all of them, but if they were legal, you'd think people would use it at least some times. You know what happens when a pro fighter punches to the throat, perhaps several times? Even people who aren't pro fighters, often kill their opponents with that. I think this probably tells you a little more about how hard it is to hit the throat. Nonetheless, I have seen some excellent throat strikes. Look for Guy Mezger vs. Ricardo Arona in Pride 16. Mezger hits Arona with a great round kick to the throat. Did Arona die? No! Did he get stunned? For a little while. Arona wound up winning the split decision.
Kirves Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 (edited) Do you not prepare for it, simply because you haven't gone there? First of all, I never said I don't train groundfighting, just said I haven't been taken to ground in real life. That's what confuses me about some. Don't be so confused, many of us do it just for the sports and fun of it. Does tennis prepare you for groundfighting? Does boxing prepare you for groundfighting? Does skateboarding prepare you for groundfighting? No, so why bother? Because it can be fun.I don't have a blind faith in any art. That's why I cross-train. But I would never take anything for granted. By saying "blind faith" what do you mean? Faith as in "it will work on the streets"? Then you are talking with the fear aspect in mind again. I don't train because I want to be able to fight on the streets. It just happens to be a nice side effect of a fun hobby/sport.Arona wound up winning the split decision. I missed that one. Good to know it has happened. I would believe the kick wasn't fully "on target", as some of the guys I know can break baseball bats with their roundhouse kicks - I personally wouldn't want to receive that in my adam's apple with full power. I managed to find a couple of sites agreeing with you about the first UFC having only two rules. But how many WC guys fought in those events? Edited July 9, 2003 by Kirves
ValeTudo Posted July 9, 2003 Posted July 9, 2003 I'm still looking on the net for a list of the rules. I doubt I'll find them since it's silly to keep a list with only 2 things on it... However, like I said before. You can read Brawl, or The Gracie Way (under the Rorion Gracie part). They'll explain the rules used in the first few UFCs.
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