back fist

[Treebranch]

You can go directly from a block to a backfist. Use your body with that strike it is brutal.

[telsun]

so one day infront of his class, and another class that was waiting in the loby, he was determinded to make an example out of me....he challenged me to a sparring match

He must have truly believed in what he was telling you. You say that he was probably jealous, which I do not doubt, but he was confident enough to challenge you

 

I don't know how to take this "McMaster. How was he after the dual? Bet he made a load of excuses. What was the response from the class?

 

The 'masters' over here tend not to be any higher than 7th dan. Yet I have never seen them challenge anyone. I don't think that they have anything to prove.

 

It would seem that he was not whom he claimed to be. What was his theory behind the lack of practicality behind a back fist? He might have heard a true master say it once and just copied it parrot fashion without the true understanding it was originally said with.

[telsun]

Well the 8th Dan should have told you a lot unless he was 80 years old. 5th or 6th is as high as any avg. person can get in all reality.

You are quite right in saying this, but just wanted to say that there is a highly acclaimed Judoka that lives in these parts that has been awarded 8th dan at the age of 51 It was awarded by the International Judo Council (or something like that). This guy is exceptional, just wanted to let you lot know that there are exceptions to the rule.

[telsun]

This is him:

 

http://www.internationalbudofederation.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/martin_clarke_bio.htm

 

I remember reading that he did not feel worthy of such a grade at such a tender age. But felt it very dishonorable to decline the offer from his seniors. A very humble man.

[delta1]

A good back fist, properly executed, is the most potent fist strike in your arsenal. Any one who teaches different is a McInstructor!

Interestingly, that's the title I'd put on anyone making the claim you just did.

 

I like backfists, don't get me wrong, but "most potent"? By definition, your body's not behid the hit; the musles involved in delivering (quadracep and back of the forearm) are not the strongest, waist movement is more limited, and the striking surface is less resiliant than in several other hits.

 

I tend to think of the open hand as the most useful single strike; and probibly the punch as next in line (though I have a fondness for the whip as well).

 

First, I never claimed to be instructing anyone- just to clear that point.

 

Next, there is more to power than having your body mass and structure behind it. Speed, torque, backup mass are all power principles. Accuracy and flow can also enhance power. And my term was 'potent', not just powerful. Included in that term is power and a lot more. Fast, flexable, versatile. They can be delivered from any angle, snaping, whiping or thrusting. They can lead or follow, are great off a spin, can go to front, back, or sides. They can drop straight off a block or parry, or can convert from another strike to adjust for the opponents maneuvers. And some types of backfist do have the body behind the 'hit', and in structural allighnmet. A whiping back knuckle is extremely resiliant, also. I don't know how you do back knuckles, but the ones I've seen and done are pretty potent.

 

{Incidentally, they are no more risky than any other strike, nor do they leave you more open (unless you are chambering it first).}

 

I also like open hand strikes, though I wouldn't say they are the most useful. Everything has its uses, and often it comes down to personal preference. I prefer a ballanced and complete arsenal myself. But my statement here ws concerning fist strikes.

 

To each his own, Jerry. But don't discourage others from learning to use this strike. You are doing them a seriouse disservice by that. It's potent..., danged potent! Most potent fist strike you can develope, if done correctly!

[DokterVet]

Backfists will never replace punches, but they are a useful addition to your arsenal.

 

That 8th dan does sound pretty bogus, but never assume that someone of a high rank is a poseur. My sensei is an 8th dan in wado. I think he is the highest ranking non-oriental in any japanese style (going from memory - don't hold me to that). So they are be rare, but still existant.

[Warp Spider]

When you struck your instructor with the backfist, did it actually cause harm? Perhaps he felt it was useless because it didn't have any tangible effect. I'm sure there are lots of attacks that you could have landed, but that doesn't necessarily make them effective. I wasn't there so I can't really say whether it was effective or not, or if it was even full contact sparring.

[JerryLove]

First, I never claimed to be instructing anyone- just to clear that point.

 

No one asdserted that you made that claim.

Next, there is more to power than having your body mass and structure behind it. Speed, torque, backup mass are all power principles.

And all are available to you in pretty much every type of hit.. they are therefore not useful on ctonrasting a backfist with another type of hand strike.

And my term was 'potent', not just powerful. Included in that term is power and a lot more. Fast, flexable, versatile. They can be delivered from any angle, snaping, whiping or thrusting. They can lead or follow, are great off a spin, can go to front, back, or sides.

 

That would deal with some element of the problem... as "potent" means "powerful"... but I still see no shining advantage of a backfist over other techniques (as a general statement), while I can see general drawbacks.

And some types of backfist do have the body behind the 'hit', and in structural allighnmet. A whiping back knuckle is extremely resiliant, also. I don't know how you do back knuckles, but the ones I've seen and done are pretty potent.

 

Pretty rare breaking strike neh? I wonder why?

To each his own, Jerry. But don't discourage others from learning to use this strike. You are doing them a seriouse disservice by that

 

That inferrs a straw-man fallacy by you as I've done no such thing... you may recall my second sentance was:

 

"I like backfists, don't get me wrong"

[delta1]

Ok. I was not arguing with you over any claims to the title instructor. Just making sure there was no confusion. That is an earned title and I would not even claim to be a McInstructor until I reach that level of competence and take on a class. You said that's the title you'd put on anyone making the claim I did and I wanted to clear any possible confusion. Not a really big issue.

 

Your last statement about the straw man fallacy is incorrect also. You did say you like the punch, but you go on to denigrade it. That's like saying 'I like you, but you stink, you're stupid, and you can't fight.' So, you like the punch, but you don't think much of it. You try to convince us it is ineffective (but likeable).

[G95champ]

You are quite right in saying this, but just wanted to say that there is a highly acclaimed Judoka that lives in these parts that has been awarded 8th dan at the age of 51 It was awarded by the International Judo Council (or something like that). This guy is exceptional, just wanted to let you lot know that there are exceptions to the rule.

 

Your right there a some exceptions but in general if a person says they are a rank higher than 5th Dan you should look into it.