do you think its right

[wilko9999]

Hi

 

Do you think its right to pay and grade for your white belt or do you think that the belt should be free with your gi?

 

i thick it is wrong to pay and grade of your white belt and it make me mad

 

L9er

[Kirves]

It depends on the school. Some schools don't treat white belt as a rank, so they won't test you for it. Some schools, have white belt as one of the ranks so it's just like any other color: you can only wear it if you know the techniques required for it. Remember, white is just a color among the rest of them. I know several styles where white belt does not mean a beginner, but it means one rank among others. I have tested for a white belt myself in one Okinawan karate style. It was just their ranking system and that's it.

[telsun]

I have never heard of anyone having to grade as a white belt So what are you before a white belt? White belt is to signify that you are a beginner how do you grade to rank of novice. What do you wear b4 that? It seems to be just another opportunity to get an extra grading fee out of everyday folk that might not be sticking around for aslong as instructor would like.

 

Yet another downwards decline for this honorable artform

[Kirves]

I have never heard of anyone having to grade as a white belt

 

...

 

White belt is to signify that you are a beginner how do you grade to rank of novice.

 

In the style(s) you are familiar with. Don't assume that you know all systems and styles. White is only a color. There are styles where white is the instructor rank, similar to black in many other styles. It is only a color and what it means is up to the particular art or style. (You know, in many styles red comes before black, some styles red means 10th dan master... and in some styles 10th dan is not a master yet, some styles have 15 dans... And some styles don't have any dan ranks after 5... So it is allways up to the art/style.)

So what are you before a white belt?

 

In the style where I trained, before white belt you were a novice. Then when you knew enough techniques you tested for white belt.

What do you wear b4 that?

 

In the style I trained in, you wore jogging pants and a t-shirt. In other styles you wear a gi and a few colored belts before ranking white belt.

It seems to be just another opportunity to get an extra grading fee

 

Then why not add just another color?

 

This is where people get mixed these things up badly. They think one color means something and another one doesn't. White is just a color. Some people got the idea that everyone goes the same routine, white, yellow, orange, blah blah. You know what, Kyokushin Karate has a 10 kyu system. You know where yellow is in that system? It is the 6th kyu! When you see a Kyokushin yellow belt you'll probably think he's a beginner, but in reality he's past blue already! It is just a color and different arts have different systems.

Yet another downwards decline for this honorable artform

 

What I find a decline is the fact that people no longer can think for themselves. They feel every art should have the same system they use. And if they don't then the other people are "dishonorable" or whatever.

 

You know, In Kyokushin (the style I practice) we have 10 kyu ranks. When I earlier studied Gensei-ryu, they only had 6. So which one is the wrong system in your all-knowing mind? Is it dishonourable that Gensei-ryu has no yellow or orange belts? Is it dishonorable that Kyokushin has blue before yellow? Is it dishonorable that the style I studied that has the white belt (Sukunaihayashi Shorin-ryu, the exact art taught by Chotoku Kyan) as one of the tested ranks, actually is the oldest extant belt rank syllabus of Okinawan karate? No other Okinawan style had a color rank syllabus before them (on Okinawa that is, the mainland Japan styles had first)! So you say they are dishonorable?

[rb]

What do you wear before that? Perhaps a rope, draw string pants. Doesn't really matter.

 

We test for white sash - three levels of it. Before that you do not have a rank. I think you should pay for your belt. Maybe with your style that's not practical but with ours you only get two and it takes so long to get them that it works out to almost nothing in the long run.

 

Also we have an administrative fee when you test for black because you are registered with our federation. Internally there is no fee.

[telsun]

I would never confess to knowing all styles/ systems What I wrote was simply my humble opinion. Which I stand by, but I do not judge or codemn others, although the manner that I wrote my response may have implied this. Please accept my apologies if it did/has.

 

You also highlight another area for discussion Kirves. The fact that styles use different racking systems and belts causes mass confusion the world over. As you said a yellow belt in one system is totally different to another system. Yes I do believe that it would be nice if every system followed the same belt pattern!!! If transferring from style to style was easy. If we all belonged to one huge worldwide association where we were all equal. If people followed their individual ideas in their training/ instruction yet excepted everyone elses ideas and critiscm. Okay going way of track here but in an ideal world we could all train together.......

 

Yes I believe that the Okinawans didn't have belts. If memory serves me right: I think it was Chojun Miyagi who dismissed the belt system when it was introduced. Saying that if someone deserved a black belt they would not want it..........I think that there is more but I do not recall.

 

There is nothing dishonorable with individaulism. Which is the reason we get all the differences.

 

Hey Kirves I could never confess to being all knowing I have just grown to see how karate seems to be on a decline in the view of the general public.

Edited June 29, 2003 by telsun

[G95champ]

We give our white belts out when the student buys a gi. Our 10th and 9th Kuy are both white ranks but no test is given niether is a certificate. This time could pass in a few classes or a few months just depends. However once they have shown the ability to know the basics we start getting them ready for the Gold belt test which is test they must pay for ONLY if they pass....

[Kirves]

I would never confess to knowing all styles/ systems

 

Good, join the club.

What I wrote was simply my humble opinion.

 

Okay.

You also highlight another area for discussion Kirves.

 

I often do. That is why I spark up so many arguments around here. Haha!

 

 

The fact that styles use different racking systems and belts causes mass confusion the world over.

 

Very true.

Yes I do believe that it would be nice if every system followed the same belt pattern!!!

 

This is where I respectfully disagree. Why? Because that would mean all arts and styles would have to have equally comparable techniques. But they don't. That is what makes an art or style; different mehtods. And you can't compare them belt-to-belt.

If transferring from style to style was easy.

 

There is no need to transfer rank from style to style.

If we all belonged to one huge worldwide association where we were all equal.

 

We are all equal.

If people followed their individual ideas in their training/ instruction yet excepted everyone elses ideas and critiscm.

 

And their ranking systems... A ranking system does not exist for the reason of comparing with other styles. It exists because of the need to organize teaching. Some styles think their system is best taught in three phases. Some styles think theirs is best taught in six phases. Some believe theirs is best taught in ten phases. That is how a ranking structure is formed. Some arts give different color t-shirts for the ranks, others different badges on the jacket, others a different color belt. It is just about their instructional phasing, nothing more or less.

Okay going way of track here but in an ideal world we could all train together.......

 

There's nothing wrong with your ideal. Just add this: we would all train together, no matter the rank/style.

karate seems to be on a decline in the view of the general public.

 

That is not because of some ranking systems. It is because of some events that make karate look bad, as karate can't send good competitors to their events who can win by their rules. Let's not worry about that, let's just do what we love to do.

[telsun]

Thanks for the input Kirves it truly has given me food for thought. Never really considered ranking systems before. Now I know why

[wilko9999]

belts are good because you have an aim like getting your black belt or 10th dan in sum clubs people pay £120 for the black belt, this is bad right!