grapplerboy Posted June 28, 2003 Share Posted June 28, 2003 Hi everybody, I'm new in this forum. I write you because I'd like to ask you the following grappling questions: 1)Why the Abu Dhabi, jiu-jitsu, sambo, shootfighting, pancrase and all other grapplers don't use the BODYSCISSORS(legs around body and squeeze) as submission instead of the mainly "defensive" jiu-jitsu's guard position"?. As far I know, the bodyscissors can be a very deadly and very effective submission hold if the grappler's legs are VERY strong. If it's so, it would be better to train the legs to squeeze the opponent's ribs or waist between the legs than just "wait in the guard for a submission". In fact, the bodyscissors hold (called Do-Jime in Judo) is banned from judo competions because it's very dangerous(possibility of breaking ribs, damage to internal organs, etc.). If it's a forbbiden technique is by any reason... Take a look at: http://www.wvmat.com/welker/scissors.htm I think that strong grapplers like Mark Keer, Mark Coleman or Bob Sapp have the leg strength to squeeze out many of their opponents in real fights with scissors...but they don´t use it. Why? What's your opinion? 2)Can classical brazilian jiu-jitsu's passing the guard techniques can be useful to escape the bodyscissors? If it is so, how to escape a lateral and rear bodyscissors with a classical jiu-jitsu's guard pass? If a opponent has a rear full nelson with his legs around the waist, he can to squeeze the ribs easily, and force a submission. 3)Have you applied or been trapped in a bodyscissors by a strong grappler or wrestler? It's possible get a submission with it? What do you think? I think it is a interesting matter to discuss in this forum. Let me know your comments! Best Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyS Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 It's a cheap move that won't work on someone with good abs or someone good and will only wear you out. Why not spend your time learning proper submissions rather than doing this? I've had people try it on me and it was annoying, but nothing I was going to tap to. BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black BeltTKD - Black Belt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiden Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 what JohnnyS said, it will generally not work and requires alot of energy to execute. Not worth it. one more note... comparing the guard to the scissors is like comparing apples to oranges. the guard is a defensive situation you go to when someone is attacking you. i don't see how you could execute a scissors move when someone has the upper hand which is usually the case when someone pulls guard. White Belt-Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severe Matburn Posted July 1, 2003 Share Posted July 1, 2003 I've used it before, but itz only worked on weak, generally untrained guys. Other than that I've tried it on others but it doesn't tap them out, juss pretty much annoy them. I've had it done on me, even sum1 bigger than me and it was definately nothin i would ever tap to. But using it would prolly keep ur opponent from passing your guard for a lil bit. But it takes too much energy and you cannot sustain a strong grip for long. "razor elbows, killer knees, iron fists and monster kicks""Nice punch!!!, now let's see how well you punch with a broken arm" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyph Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 I think it's similar to the can opener.. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 What? Then scissors is deadly! A few months ago we where doing grappling we where he to go from one hold to another, each time trying to get out of the others and apply your own. I was doing great dispite being 15 and 5'7 facing someone around 6 ft and about 30 or so. But when he got be in a bodyscissors it really hurt. I couldn't get them off, the only way ig out out of that was by grabbing his bulls. Personally I would have prefered being in between the thighs of a girl, have any of you girls here applied any type of scissors to men and did it work, this is from a combat effective perspective of course. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Heel Hook Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Body scissors...heh... "A deer admires a lion. But all the members of our family are lions. So it doesn't matter which lion I admire. " -Rener Gracie- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 I've had people try it on me and it was annoying, but nothing I was going to tap to. ditto I had to lose my mind to come to my senses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzie Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 If you can get your elbows on the inside of his thighs and push, I promise you he'll release his hold Grappling enthusiast!Shootfighting as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibby Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Things I can do when you put me in the Scissors: 1. Use you leverage you are giving me to choke you 2. Get a little ground-and-pound in 3. Put you up and drop out hard on your back, and maybe your head or neck. Not only will it hurt, but in Judo, that will give me a point 4. Stand up, turn around, and pull the classic Boston crab. 5. Put pressure on the groin 6. Put pressure on the abs 7. Put pressure on your legs 8. Because you have no legs to stabilize you, I can roll you over, sling yo around, and/or do any number of things. My 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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