Icetuete Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 hi everyone! i have been wondering how this could be. whenever there is a discussion about real fight self defense it always comes to the efficiency against either a non martial artist or a mugger/raper/robber or whatever guy looking for people to bully for no specific reason. this guy (i called him Joe Thug) does not attend training of any kind, is no martial artist, but nevertheless it seems like his style of fighting (like mentioned in topic) can be extremely dangerous to any of us. what exactly is the special about this thuggish style? and how comes that it has the chance to beat a fighter of any style? is it because it includes the not so noble stuff like kicking in the gonads or something? then why is there no self-defense style taught anywhere that includes these very painful "technique"? Is Joe Thug that much of a danger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icetuete Posted June 27, 2003 Author Share Posted June 27, 2003 what I think might be considered some kind of answer is that u for example dont know what to expect. a boxer will try to hit u in the face and a judoka will try to throw u on the ground. but Joe Thug might kick to ur gonads, hit in the face, kick to the groin, choke or even carry a knife or worse. joe thug as well might be very strong, but that is not THAT important in martial arts i think. what really is an advantage to Joe is that he is used to bully around because he perhaps does nothing else all day while u and me come in this situation once in a lifetime. ur answers are appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G95champ Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 The thing that makes them dangerous is SUPRISE... Anytime one person is ready and one is not. Attackers use surpise to get the upper hand. This is what MA teaches more than anything to keep your cool and react not think. That way you are not in awe of his attack on you. Thats why you do thousands of reps of the same move over and over and over each week. The other advantage they have is that you are not knowing. You don't know what they want, you don't know if they got a gun or knife, you don't know if they are going to fight to the death or just hit and run. One last thing is you have something to loose and they don't. If you have your hand full of bags after a shopping trip, You car, your loved one may be grabbed, others you care about who can't protect themselves may be caught in the line of fire and you have to control the situation in respect to them as well as to where the attacker don't care. So its not that the guy on the street is better but he gets to pick where you fight, how you fight, and when you fight. Sort of like going on the road for a playoff game. LOL... (General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aznkarateboi Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 First of all, I think that the common belief of a mugger being a better fighter than a black belt is wrong. However, "street fighters" (whether or not they exist in large numbers), are likely to be seasoned fighters on the street. They have what most martial artists don't have, which is EXPERIENCE. However, I still think that a seasoned martial artist would win against one. Here are the reasons. I will give them in the form of responses to common comments. 1) "street fighters can take pain". Many MAs, such as Muay Thai and Kyokushin, have full contact sparring and in Kyokushin, they don't even wear gloves. I think it is fair to say that MAists can take pain as well. 2) "street fighters can kick your nuts, bite you, and poke your eyes" So can MAists, and they have a variety of other weapons as well. And don't tell me that street fighters have better nut-kicking abilities then MAists. 3) "street fighters have been in more street fights than martial artists and therefore would beat them" yes most street fighters probably do have more experience on the street. However, the major flaw in this argument is that they are trained in fighting untrained fighters, such as unsuspecting babysitters and the like. Many martial arts, such as karate, teach moves that are directly related to self defense (such as defense against haymakers, pushes, and escapes from shirt grabs, headlocks, etc.). Street fighters are most likely not used to the seasoned and precise fighting methods of MAists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granmasterchen Posted June 28, 2003 Share Posted June 28, 2003 Joe Thug is experienced at his game, he is comfortable in street fights, that is his dojo, he fights for keeps and and does not practice lighter contact, it is always full contact for him, he is used to fighting real fights so he can control his fear and flow of adrenaline and use it to his benefit. Most martial artists don't train in street fights, it is usually in the dojo , a controled area, the martial artist may have some experience on the streets, yet not all of it is street fights, also joe thug knows from experience what moves work in the streets, he doesn't turn his back and he doesn't do flashy kicks, he is aggressive and beats on you until you are out, he doesn;t stop or show mercy, these are weaknesses to him, consider these factors when confronting joe, remember to calculate them in to the threat level! That which does not destroy me will only make me stronger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icetuete Posted June 28, 2003 Author Share Posted June 28, 2003 thanks for these quick answers and thanks for applying the name for ur fighter Attackers use surpise to get the upper hand. most of the time u probably can get aware of such a situation. when the atmosphere in a bar gets tempered or when someone is bullying u around u probably know that it might come to a fight. as well as when walking a dark alley at night you probably are aware that such situations might occure. you don't know if they got a gun or knife same goes for joe thug. he risks mugging a man with knife/gun/chain/nunchaku in his pocket. or even he could have laid his grips on a martial artist. i think THATS what he fears most. so why are these martial artists afraid (to a certain extend) of HIM?One last thing is you have something to loose and they don't. yes, i agree to that. the worst thing that could happen to Joe Thug is that he might get beat up or take a hit. that would make just one more scar from his many fights. So its not that the guy on the street is better but he gets to pick where you fight, how you fight, glad we agree about that he is not better than us i think where it takes place does not matter. he falls just as hard as anyone else on the asphalt and has to see in the same darkness as we do. and i think HOW we fight is a question of ur dojo and not about joe thug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icetuete Posted June 28, 2003 Author Share Posted June 28, 2003 thanks for these quick answers and thanks for applying the name for ur fighter Attackers use surpise to get the upper hand. most of the time u probably can get aware of such a situation. when the atmosphere in a bar gets tempered or when someone is bullying u around u probably know that it might come to a fight. as well as when walking a dark alley at night you probably are aware that such situations might occure. you don't know if they got a gun or knife same goes for joe thug. he risks mugging a man with knife/gun/chain/nunchaku in his pocket. or even he could have laid his grips on a martial artist. i think THATS what he fears most. so why are these martial artists afraid (to a certain extend) of HIM?One last thing is you have something to loose and they don't. yes, i agree to that. the worst thing that could happen to Joe Thug is that he might get beat up or take a hit. that would make just one more scar from his many fights. So its not that the guy on the street is better but he gets to pick where you fight, how you fight, glad we agree about that he is not better than us i think where it takes place does not matter. he falls just as hard as anyone else on the asphalt and has to see in the same darkness as we do. and i think HOW we fight is a question of ur dojo and not about joe thug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icetuete Posted June 28, 2003 Author Share Posted June 28, 2003 thanks for these quick answers and thanks for applying the name for ur fighter Attackers use surpise to get the upper hand. most of the time u probably can get aware of such a situation. when the atmosphere in a bar gets tempered or when someone is bullying u around u probably know that it might come to a fight. as well as when walking a dark alley at night you probably are aware that such situations might occure. you don't know if they got a gun or knife same goes for joe thug. he risks mugging a man with knife/gun/chain/nunchaku in his pocket. or even he could have laid his grips on a martial artist. i think THATS what he fears most. so why are these martial artists afraid (to a certain extend) of HIM?One last thing is you have something to loose and they don't. yes, i agree to that. the worst thing that could happen to Joe Thug is that he might get beat up or take a hit. that would make just one more scar from his many fights. So its not that the guy on the street is better but he gets to pick where you fight, how you fight, glad we agree about that he is not better than us i think where it takes place does not matter. he falls just as hard as anyone else on the asphalt and has to see in the same darkness as we do. and i think HOW we fight is a question of ur dojo and not about joe thug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icetuete Posted June 28, 2003 Author Share Posted June 28, 2003 errrrr... yes - one post would have fit the purpose as well. could anyone please delete two of the posts? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icetuete Posted June 28, 2003 Author Share Posted June 28, 2003 happy u as well think joe thug isnt better than a black belt i agree to most of ur points aznkarateboi except maybe no.2! on the one hand, a martial artist can perform a kick that probably is harder and more precise than the kick of joe thug. but in most martial arts, the nutkick-technique is not common. at least as far as i know so the martial artist would react without thinking, and performing the move he learned in the dojo. since that is no nutkick ... do u agree? joe thug is used to nutkick or whatever because its the "style" he does and has done many times before. nonetheless u got good points! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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