Cyph Posted June 22, 2003 Posted June 22, 2003 Assuming that martial arts is the study of combat, then cross training and becoming a well rounded martial artist is essential these days if you're training with the forementioned definition in mind. Ever since the hype of the UFC the Gracies generated by defeating much larger and stronger opponents than themselves, everyone has rushed off to study BJJ/GJJ or some form of ground fighting since they thought it was the 'ultimate' martial art. While BJJ is an excellent art that doesn't rely so much on strength, but more on technique and skill, I don't think it's the ultimate art, or the be all and end all of arts. The Gracies exploited a major flaw in practically every martial artists' arsenal - lack of knowledge on the ground. These days anybody who doesn't know their way on the ground is finished in a matter of seconds by any well rounded fighter. Also, is it a coincidence we no longer see pure grapplers entering the UFC (with the exception of like such as Frank Mir), but nearly everyone trains in striking, clinching & grappling? I realise that the UFC is not reality fighting, but is merely a sport. However, it is as possible that we can get to reality training without causing serious injury to ourselves and our partners. The way mixed martial artists train is far superior to any other method which is what makes them superior martial artists, their training is what Matt Thornton calls alive and all their techniques are continually pressure tested, so they learn to control their fear, deal with the adrenalin rush(es), take hard hits, give out hard hits, etc. all of which will prepare them for a real confrontation better than anything else. Of course, there is much more to self defense, particularly pre-fight during the verbal exchange and Geoff Thompson (https://www.geoffthompson.com) offers excellent insight into the pre-fight for anyone who hasn't experienced it before, while breaking it down in an articulate manner. For those of you who want to argue, 'my art is too deadly for the ring', 'they have rules which put limits on the fighters and my art', 'my art has no need to prove itself' or along similar lines... I say, wake up and get with the times! We have seen what happens to karate masters in the UFC, or practioners other arts such as Silat... they get destroyed! No, it is not because they're not allowed to use techniques that will kill their opponent. Not allowing groin kicks, eye jabs, hair pulling, etc. would not make a difference. If you can't punch someone in the face, how can you possibly hope to jab them in the eye? Grabbing someone's groin while underneath the mount leaves you open for your opponent to hail down with punches & elbows on top of you. Your opponent can use all these dirty tactics, plus more on you since he has a superior position where he can apply significantly more leverage than you can from the bottom. How can you hope to beat someone who has fast hands & good defense against punches, solid kicks & good defense against kicks, clinch skills along with knees & elbows and the ability to control you on the ground? The pure boxer will get destroyed with kicks, the kicker who lacks behind with his punches will soon cop a few too many punches in the face, the grappler's in serious strife if he can't take the fight down to the ground or defend agaist strikes. I realise most fights are one-on-one, but I wanted to point out the vulnerabilities by only knowing one range. In a real fight, there are far too many variables to plan on fighting in one range. What happens when you're punching someone and they clinch with you to smother the effects of the punches and you end up on the ground rolling around on the floor? It's certainly not the ideal place to be, but knowing your way on the ground provides you with more options and tools in your arsenal to do whatever it is you need to do to protect yourself and win the fight. This might mean choking the guy out on the ground, or getting to your feet as soon as possible. By having knowledge in each range, we can help to steer the fight into the range that we're most comfortable with in the situation. This might mean getting back onto your feet after you hit the ground (and don't think you won't ever hit the ground in a fight), or it might mean taking the fight to the ground if the circumstances call for it.
capn_midnight Posted June 22, 2003 Posted June 22, 2003 I just love these essay posts. Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling a pig. After a few hours, you realize they both like it.
Kirves Posted June 22, 2003 Posted June 22, 2003 (edited) You were right on target as long as the assumption that the practitioner is training to become an expert street fighter is kept in mind. What often makes me a bit mad is how some people call people stupid and ignorant and whatsmore, because these people choose to study just one karate style, or tae kwon do, or judo. Not everyone is training to become the baddest fighter on the block. Some people train just for fun, we chooce to call ourselves "hobbyists". Some people play chess for fun - hey they even partake in tournaments. Are they stupid because chess won't help you in a street fight? Of course not. Same applies to figure skaters. They do it for fun and compete in the appropriate tournaments. Now this may seem like it doesn't relate to your "essay" because you were talking about training martial arts for street combat. What I want to achieve with this post is to make sure this discussion stays focused on that. It is all too common for people in these arguments to start calling people names and so on because they don't agree to crosstrain the same set of famous NHB arts. Phew, that was my rant of the week. Edited August 27, 2003 by Kirves
Icetuete Posted June 22, 2003 Posted June 22, 2003 I just love these essay posts. i dont consider myself able to perform such posts
pmh1nic Posted June 22, 2003 Posted June 22, 2003 I think each person needs to ask themselves why they want to train in the martial arts and then decide which art meets those needs. If you want to train so that you can participate in NHB events then you better cross train under very realistic conditions. If you want to train "just to get some exercise and stay limber" then you don't have to be so concerned with many of the things mentioned in the original post. The benefit of cross training under realistic conditions is you will be better physical and mental condition to prevail in a fight whether it's in the ring or out. The drawback is the time and energy commitment you'll have to make and the increased risk of injury this realistic training may entail. The benefit of training in XYZ generic martial art is that it will give you some benefits in the way of exercise, improving your reflexes and coordination, and learn some basic fighting skill. Will you be ready to enter the UFC ring? NO. Will you be as well prepared for a physical confrontation in the street as the realistically, cross trained individual? NO. But another benefit will be that you will have more time and energy to pursue other areas of life (time with family, pursuing other hobbies, having more time to invest in your vocation, etc.) and you will probably have minimized your risk and exposure to injury. Each individual has to balance out his own needs and desires with the type of training they chose. "The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?" Benjamin Franklin
Kirves Posted June 22, 2003 Posted June 22, 2003 Well said, pmh1nic. The family issues, other hobbies, children, job demands, how much priority martial arts have in your life, what arts are available from reasonable distances for reasonable prices (yes, some of us just can't afford to train in five different schools in five different locations), all affect how much and what you train.
Icetuete Posted June 22, 2003 Posted June 22, 2003 i as well agree with pmh1nic. for me the martial arts are a hobby and not my entire life. i wouldnt call cross training "essential"... but pmh1nic pointed out the main aspects...!
capn_midnight Posted June 25, 2003 Posted June 25, 2003 I just love these essay postsmy point is, it seems like there is always someone who feels the need to "educate" us on the "right" way to be training. I think Kirves hit the nail on the head with the idea that not everyone trains to be a badassi street fighter. Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling a pig. After a few hours, you realize they both like it.
newbalance Posted June 26, 2003 Posted June 26, 2003 It doesnt matter how much you train. The old saying that will always ring true comes to mind-"there is always someone stronger, faster, and better than you out there, and you just might run into them" *of course, the more you train, the less-often you run into these people.
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