Treebranch Posted July 30, 2003 Posted July 30, 2003 So what do you deem appropriate for the real world? "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
Drunken Monkey Posted July 30, 2003 Posted July 30, 2003 what i mean, that the responses that it seems to teach is not appropriate for the real world. if a guy tries to snatch your hand bag or what-ever, what would your krav maga response be? break his arm? stamp on his knee? elbow to throat? that was what i was refering to. post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite."
Treebranch Posted July 30, 2003 Posted July 30, 2003 There is grappling techniques in this stuff, it's really up to you and how you apply it. I'd rather train in an art where I might have to hold back in a real situation than the other way around. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
Drunken Monkey Posted July 30, 2003 Posted July 30, 2003 well i do suppose the mentality of the person applying any art has a lot to do with it. i mean, just because i train with finger jabs, elbows, kness and the like doesn't mean i use them all of the time... guess it also depends on the school. post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite."
Treebranch Posted July 30, 2003 Posted July 30, 2003 Yeah, I couldn't agree with more. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
Drunken Monkey Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 this might sound like i'm taking a few steps back and putting my stupid hat on again but... ...if any style claims that it only teaches realistic self defence moves that are highly efficient, brutal and too dangerous for the street then does that mean that it is inappropriate for real world practice? does this in turn mean that it is not a realistic martial art or even a complete art because it is not realistic? i am, of course, ignoring the fact that this is just the usual hyperbola that most mcdojos spout... post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite."
Treebranch Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 I think that self defense means someone is attacking you with the intent of doing you serious harm or to kill you. In that type of situation it is hard to judge whether or not your actions will maim or kill the attacker or if you will be maimed or killed. Therefore you should match the force that is being given to you and if you think about it too much, well the outcome may not be in your favor. I think that if Martial Arts are being taught in a way that you are at risk because your concerned with the laws, that Martial Art is probably not going to do you any good in a "Real" situation. Yes many dojos claim they have dangerous and deadly techniques and I can't speak for them. I can only tell you what I've experienced, San Soo is a very efficient and effective MA. I had a street fight after training for about 4 months. I kicked the guy in the groin and gave him a straight right to the nose and the fight was over. I didn't continue beating on him or stomping his head into the ground whch is a common finishing move in San Soo. I knew when to stop. If you see a San Soo school that claims it is brutal and deadly, believe it. Take a couple classes with them and judge for yourself. Put it this way if you took a high ranking BB in San Soo that was 220 lbs and fit. Trained him for a year so that he could compete in a NHB tournament, and you told him there are no rules, you can do anything you want. Ouch, it would be a mess. There are no submissions in this stuff, it's tear, break, bam, boom, mean shtuff. You should check it out if you have the chance or if you are interested. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
Drunken Monkey Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 but then the same can be said of a lot of martial arts. for example, in wing chun, even our basic blocks CAN lead to arm breaks, kicks are generally aimed for knees and groin, hand attacks at the closest vulnerable spots and elbows fly towards the head etc etc you just have to forget all of them guys who do the fancy nine/ten hit demos showing how they can hit a guy that many times after one interception. you could say that i'm a bit annoyed with a lot of people seeing the simplicity of wing chun forms and the peculiar way we train and then making judgenments on it as an art and as self defense. you're right, i have tried not to make rash judgements and you might have noticed that i do try to ask general questions that can be aimed any style. i am quite aware of the fact some people's idea of effective includes the time it takes to learn and be good and if time is one of your criteria then all i can say is that maybe wing chun isn't for you. but then this is based on my own personal experience based on my style. like i have said, i have seen some guys get really good in a matter of months and i have seen people spend ages and get nowhere. so i guess even the time factor can be ignored because of the personal input factor (i.e how much time you put in). as for a no rules fight, i still think a grappler will have an advantage, especially if he just aims to shoot you. after all he has trained to take a few hits on the way in... i don't know. this is one of those things that we can argue/discuss/whatever you want to call it forever. thre are probably too many different factors involved for anyone to make bold statements like "my style is too brutal and can defeat most guys on the street in a dangerous situation" post count is directly related to how much free time you have, not how intelligent you are."When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite."
Treebranch Posted July 31, 2003 Posted July 31, 2003 I would say that I do agree with you for the most part. I would like to comment on your statement about grapplers. Traditional JJ is considered a grappling art as well as most Battle tested Combat MA. Grappling is the fastest way to control and take an attacker out. As far as someone shooting in on you, this shouldn't be your biggest concern. There are plenty of counters to someone shooting in. The key is don't resist, redirect their force. I'm not making a claim about San Soo I'm just telling you from experience of studying this stuff, just like you made of Wing Chun. I don't think that it's a bad thing to let people know about a style that they are not familiar with. Anyway all Martial Arts have the potential to maim or kill someone, but not all MA's were designed for that purpose. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
sansoouser Posted July 31, 2003 Author Posted July 31, 2003 people like my quotes so much they frame them, instead of using them The amateur shoots his hands out ferociously, but lacks any true power. A master is not so flamboyant, but his touch is as heavy as a mountain.
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