has any one used karate (shotokan) in the UFC???

[TJS]

Fireka-

so, the gracies call themselves martial artist, yet there so * they belive them selves to be invincible?

 

No, the people who belive they are invivible are usually the ones who "choose not to fight" not the ones who go out and prove themselves

style really dosent matter in the end does it?

 

Yes it really does. If your goal is to be a fighter it most certainly does.

allow me then, to meet the gracie brothers at our destenation and defeat them, both at once, if that is what it takes.

 

Actually there are alot more than 2 of them.

But what i am claiming is that even a shotokan practioner can beat them

 

well there hasant been one in the last 50 years to do it. They must be missing something.

so now BJJ gets its 15 minutes of fame

 

BJJ has dominated since 1993 and is a foundation of cross training for almost every one of today top grapplers.

because it will soon be karate's turn.

The only Way Karate will ever beat BJJ is by learning it and going form there. To think other wise your living in a dream world. This fact has been proven over the last 10 years..catch up.

than i suggest we stop moping, get off our lazy hides and fix it.

 

The fix would be learning how to grapple.

 

Shotokanwarrior

Where did TJS get the 99%

 

Find me ONE Example or a pure Karateka winning a major MMA/NHB event in the last 10 years..you will be hard pressed to do so.

ill put my hands up and say no then step back, if he steps foreward then he cant see, he cant breath and he cant walk. I do not square up to people and fight, I do it only for self defense.

 

I see You live in Cali...Go into a BJJ school and test out your theory...let me know how it goes.

 

Kirves-

I'd rather kick the first one of them in the knee to slow him down a bit and start running like Forrest Gump

 

Intresting I was Shown a Kick to the knee by none other than Relson Gracie the other day..

 

Shoju-

It has been done...by kenpo karateka Chuck Lidell. If you can learn to sprwall, avoid subs and stay off your back it can be done.

 

Chuck Liddel is an All state Wrestler with extensinve training in Jiu jitsu and other striking arts...he did kenpo when he was like 14...I would hardly call him a karateka..

[Beer-monster]

Kempo is a stand up art very much like karate. Karate was actually kalled kempo jutsu in the days before Funakoshi.

 

You have a point, we'd have to learn grappling to know how to beat it. BUt it doesn't mean we have to grapple to do it.

 

They are wrong, I wouldn't want to go against the gracies at any point no matter how much I trained.

 

But I'm sure karate is not down for the count yet, and grappling is not the be all and end all, it aint the ultimate art as the ultimate art doesn't exist.

 

Style does matter but in a fighter, it is talent and dedication.Any tool is useless in the hands of a person who doesn't know how to make it work.

 

Beside that aren't we all digressing.

[fireka]

holy kata! did somebody just try and tear my message limb from limb and destroy it pice by bitter pice...without even using the word 'glittering generality'....look at how over taken i was, i dont stand a chance, i mean geez! i just said glittering generality was one word!

 

the problem with this statment is that it is exactlly the kind of hype i want martial artist of every style to ignore. there is one scentence TJS you did not pull, the fact that martial arts will show you that no task is immpossible. Ladies and Getelman can we please forget the hype, forget the statisticts, and focus. as a tae-kwon-do studied, i had really hoped you would have been a little more willing to take a stand your self, since your style, while just as equall as far as having both advantages and disadvantages, is the blunt of more jokes than even shotokan. (by the way what does the akronym KM stand for) the reason i ask this is because based on your post i was almost ABSOLUTELY certain you were a BJJ student attempting to defend your styles integrity. I was wrong of course, i guess no ones perfect.

 

people are not a statistic. and martial arts are all about people. so focus! lets see what we can do within our own styles to penetrate this weakness. learning to grapple, no not the answer, because what i said was lets look at the principles our stlyes teach. a form of grappling yes, but surcomeing into the same darned old thing is a weakness because what if somethingsomeday comes a long that really can beat BJJ, then your up creek with out a paddle arnt you? because not only do they have the game over karate, but that second style you studdied, not out of intrest but lack of faith, as well.

[TJS]

as a tae-kwon-do studied, i had really hoped you would have been a little more willing to take a stand your self, since your style, while just as equall as far as having both advantages and disadvantages, is the blunt of more jokes than even shotokan

 

I havent Studied TKD in about 9 years. Trust me plenty of the critisizm of TKD comes from me

 

 

by the way what does the akronym KM stand for

 

Krav Maga.

based on your post i was almost ABSOLUTELY certain you were a BJJ student attempting to defend your styles integrity.

 

I do defend BJJ alot because i think it's succes speaks for itself..thats not something you can just ignore.

 

I have trained in BJJ to some extent..A little under Relson Gracie and one of his instructors as well as being a training partner for someone in preperation of a NHB fight.

there is one scentence TJS you did not pull, the fact that martial arts will show you that no task is immpossible

 

No will power can mean alot..i dont think All BJJ fighters will beat all Karateka...But most things being equal I have seen what will happen almost every time.

 

I respect your enthusiasm and willingness to try things...but sometimes that means loosing the whole Stlye loyalty...train in what works.

 

 

Ladies and Getelman can we please forget the hype, forget the statisticts

 

Facts and statistics dont lie..why would you want to forget them? im sure as a krateka you would want to...Royce gracie winning 5 UFC' as the smallest fighter wasant a fluke...it does mean something.

[fireka]

Gracie winning that tournament out matched and out numbered by other styles proves my point that nothing is impossible. but ithink through our debateing we hae actually reached a somewhat level ground (wow! thats rare!)

 

but i must stick to what i have said, if you want to study BJJ because you have an intrest in its theory and style, more power to you, i have nothing but respect for the style. but if you want to study it because your giving up on finding away around this problem using your own styles concepts than i call you a traitor. There is a way! I am trying to work with sevral of you from diffrent karate forms now (particularly Isshinryu, Shotokan and wado-ryu) to find away around this problem.

[Beer-monster]

Know your enemy, know yourself, and you will never fear defeat in 1000 battles.

 

Point is, studying BJJ makes no one a traitor. You must know how to grapple if you want to counter grapple.

[TJS]

"traitor"..this is what leads to blind stlye loyalty.

 

Bo be the best fighter you can be you should cross train

 

No on in the world is better on the ground than BJJ and thats a fact.

 

while you spend years searching for an answer in a standup stlye you will never find it.

[Beer-monster]

Who's to say you wont. No one has tried.

 

But to find a solution one must understand the p-roblem, which requires cross training.

[shotokanwarrior]

Find me a factual statement with the data to back up that 99% of bjj beat karate that are not ufc related? There are a lot of people in the world so the list should be long, but what about the great martial artist who do not believe in competition and beliefe karate is a way of life not something to brag about and who only fight when faced with serious threat not a drunk guy in a bar.

[shotokanwarrior]

I bet Gene Labell would have beat any bjj when he was in his fighting days. I do not think that there are facts that bjj is the best on the ground.

 

And what if you were a bjj and came across 3 brutes like kimo ( ufc 3 ) I think you better run I would.