Sho-ju Posted June 23, 2003 Posted June 23, 2003 Shotokan karateka who have been training for many, many years have "stepped up" and got beat by jiu jitsu guys with a couple of years training. Don't take my word for it, https://www.sherdog.com in the forums section you'll find threads that have video links.
shotokanwarrior Posted June 23, 2003 Posted June 23, 2003 It all comes down to the person and his abilities in a sport match. There are great masters of ma that do not fight in a compitition. Just because some karate people lost does not mean bjj is better. On the street it is a different matter, whatever works and bjj is good as well as karate. Personally I would not want to be on the ground when there are a lot of people around and weapons. I do know some really good throws that would work in a street self defense situation but not in the ring. But sill as for going into a mma event I would train, train, train. For the street I just want to get out of a hold or prevent one from happening then use karate self defense. Where Art ends, nature begins.
Guest Posted June 23, 2003 Posted June 23, 2003 even when having only one opponent, going to the ground may not be such a good idea. How do you suppose you are going to get away if you are wrapped up like a prezel with your adversary. Unless you dehabilitate the attacker, you can't let go. Then if you do dehabilitate the attacker, in todays screwed up justice system he might be taking you to court or worse.
Beer-monster Posted June 23, 2003 Posted June 23, 2003 As a thought, does the MMA out there think that we humble karateka would stand a much better chance if we found more effective ways to deal with shoot attacks and were more practised with them (personally I could try a Tawara gaeshi but I'd rather not as I'm small). I know it takes much more, but what how much would you say our chances would improve if we could do that much at least and well. Mind, body and fist. Its all a man truly needs.
SupaNinjaz Posted June 23, 2003 Posted June 23, 2003 fireka wrote:from what you all know, would a fairly well seasoned fighter of Isshinryu style stand a shoot in the K-1? In order to stand a chance in K-1, he would have to... - Spar full contact, under K-1/Muay Thai rules on a regular bases - Understand how to fight in the "plum" or clinch - Diet - Cardiovascular and Physical condition/training - Train 5-6 days a week, 3-6 hours a day - Understand how to use and defend against knees and low kicks - Be able to knock his opponent out - Must become an Athlete - Muat have talent to fight If the Isshinryu practitioner has ability and trains like this on a regular bases then without a doubt, he would stand a solid chance in K-1.
Kirves Posted June 23, 2003 Posted June 23, 2003 If the Isshinryu practitioner has ability and trains like this on a regular bases then without a doubt, he would stand a solid chance in K-1. Exactly. The biggest difference between a regular hobby-karateka and the NHB pros is that they are pros and we are hobbyists. It is so common for people to talk way overboard about what one has to do to be a good fighter. First you have to know how to fight stand up. So take 3-4 weekly lessons of Muay Thai, or Kyokushin or whatever. Then you also have to know groundwork, so take 3-4 weekly lessons of BJJ or Submission Wrestling. Then for real life self defence you need to know about weapons and defences against them, so take Kali/Eskrima for 3-4 weekly lessons. Then you have to get athletic, go to a gym and start pumping iron 2 hours every other day. Then go to the GNC and get huge packs of protein, creatine and all the powders you can find. Then you need to spar in as many rings and with as many tournaments as possible. And train with all kinds of equipment (bag, mits, ...). Now just start calculating how much time, effort and money all that is going to take. If you are not a pro fighter, you need to get the money somewhere too, so add a job to that list. A job with high income, because all that activity will cost you quite a lot. And forget about family life... You wake up, go to work after the day, you go to one club for a two hour session, then you go to another club or the gym for another hour or two, then you mix all your concoctions and spend the rest of the evening trying to digest the stuff. Most of us aren't that dead serious about martial arts. Someone who is, must be rich (so no need for a job) or become a pro fast. Another option is to become semi-serious, that is limit what you do to either standup (focus on K1 and the like) or do groundfighting (focus on BJJ or Submission Wrestling and the like). Or remain a hobbyist and just do what you enjoy and don't go nuts about it. If you spend some years studying "for the K1" and get good at it, maybe then it is easier to focus on groundwork for a while to round it up. Or vice versa. But to start from the beginning, already focusing on all this, you need to be dead serious or it won't work. One can always go for a single style that "has it all" (and what style is that), but you won't be that good (can't get 6 hours worth in two hours if the stuff is essentially the same). So, in my humble opinion, those who claim that unless you train all the ranges with the best of them you are "not skilled" enough for the street or the ring, are in my opinion unrealistic about life in general (unless they are talking about millionaires or professional fighters with nothing else to do but train).
Sho-ju Posted June 23, 2003 Posted June 23, 2003 BJJ does have a ground game, the best ground game in MMA. But don't sleep Bjj also has stand up striking as well. Bjj is jiu jitsu don't forget it's just the ground game is at it's heights right now so it's being played up.
Beer-monster Posted June 23, 2003 Posted June 23, 2003 Ver good point Kirves. And it few people realise it. So often we hearBJJ is better than this or that because nobody has beaten the Gracies or whoever. Well since few people have the raw talent, genius or dedication to training of these people, I'm not surprised. It is not the atheletes and competetion winners that determines the style it is we. We are the ones who train as any normal person would and we're the one who are the mugged and victims of bar room skin head. We make up most of the style's members. Competetions and any encounter are not about the styles but the person who uses it and how he uses it. It is the arm swinging that bangs in nails, not the hammer. Mind, body and fist. Its all a man truly needs.
Sho-ju Posted June 24, 2003 Posted June 24, 2003 If I'm not mistaken all the Gracies have a loss now.
TJS Posted June 24, 2003 Posted June 24, 2003 If I'm not mistaken all the Gracies have a loss now. Except Rickson Well since few people have the raw talent, genius or dedication to training of these people, I'm not surprised. The Gracies are not extreme athletes or even big and built...although they do have dedication and genius.even when having only one opponent, going to the ground may not be such a good idea. How do you suppose you are going to get away if you are wrapped up like a prezel with your adversary. SMR- If you have the mount or sidemount on someonw what keeps you from getting up? Are you assuming all grapplers end up on bottom? usually that happens when you fight someone much larger or stronger. Shotokanwarrior-Just because some karate people lost does not mean bjj is better. On the street it is a different matter BJJ automaticly looses it's effectivness "on the street" and karate takes over right? Shotokankarate_0-man you dont know what you are talking about it you think karate only works if you suprise someone. I was talking about what shotokan warrior said...He was implying that.
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