Is there a secret to tying your belt

[TAZ]

Jussi Häkkinen wrote:

In most Okinawan styles the proper way is to tie the belt in a way that it crosses at the back

Not to undermine your knowledge, but is this true? I have never heard of that. I think that would be very sloppy looking.

[Jussi Häkkinen]

Jussi Häkkinen wrote:

In most Okinawan styles the proper way is to tie the belt in a way that it crosses at the back

Not to undermine your knowledge, but is this true? I have never heard of that. I think that would be very sloppy looking.

It is true and it isn't very sloppy looking - it looks just different, but not sloppy if done properly. I used to tie the belt without crossing it and was corrected into the crossed way.

Pretty much every Okinawan master seems to wear his belt in a "crossed" -way in pictures and videos. As well as in live situation.

One purpose that has been told is that the crossed area supports the lower back a bit (valid only if the belt is tied very tightly).

Other, more practical, reason is that the crossed belt is flatter, being only one layer on spine area. That way the breakfalls don't hurt your back so much. That reason holds water, especially with thicker black belts.

[Tommy_P]

I was also taught to cross in the back. If you look at some hakama used in Kendo there is an extra piece that extends up the back. A belt would cross back there combining with that stiff support to strengthen it like a back support.

Tommy

[Jussi Häkkinen]

I was also taught to cross in the back. If you look at some hakama used in Kendo there is an extra piece that extends up the back. A belt would cross back there combining with that stiff support to strengthen it like a back support.

Yes, belt can work like a koshi ita (the backpiece) if tightened up. With hakama, however, the koshi ita itself supports the back, without the help of the belt. Belt is traditionally worn under the hakama and is very different to the karate or judo belt.

(Some modern bujutsu schools wear belt over the hakama. That is not a traditional way, however).

[TAZ]

Thanks guys! Hey, ya learn something new every day!

[srv]

What I don't get about this thread is people having lots of students in the dojo who don't know how to tie their belts properly. And that no-one has shown them. The whit belt kids sometimes come along with belts tied all sorts of ways but we will always correct them and show them and their parents how to do it. Other than that we always show new students when they first get their gi and belt how to tie it step by step. It is a grading requirement for a white belt to know how to tie their belt properly before going to the next rank. I think a belt that is tied incorrectly looks pretty sloppy. It doesn't matter which method you use to tie your belt in your dojo, but surely all students should know how to tie it correctly according to that schools method.

[Hobbes]

I've seen many students of late in a number of dojo that have demonstrated some bad habits such as not tying their belts, leaving their clothes (when they change) lying on the change room floor and tossing their shoes any which way at the entrance. I wish that this was only the children, but adults also do this. As far as the belt cris-cross issue, the obi should be straight all the way around the back. It has no practical reason other than it demonstrates neatness. As with all things, changing styles with changing attitudes have resulted in many students tying their obi in a cris-cross fashion with both ends uneven. If nothing else, this demonstrates a casual attitude, which may not be desirable. This falls into the same category as personal hygiene and freshly laundered uniforms. In the business world, a sloppily tied neck tie, tattered suit, body odor, scuffed and dirty shoes and or unshaven would not stir confidence in a business meeting. Taking some pride in your appearance demonstrates personal character and professionalism. Poorly tied obi screams... "I don't really care". If you see an 8 dan with a cris-cross, he has most likely goofed.. we are all human after all. The bottom line is, if your sensei says cross over, then follow him/her. For me, I will continue to tie my obi the way I always have. I have never been told once, in all my time in Japan that I was incorrect, but I have been commented on with regards to the fact that I was always neat and tidy and a good example.

[Jussi Häkkinen]

As far as the belt cris-cross issue, the obi should be straight all the way around the back.

Only if the style defines it so.

If you see an 8 dan with a cris-cross, he has most likely goofed.

In that case most (I'd be ready to claim 90%) of the Okinawan masters (8-10. dan) are "goofed". They do cross the belt behind their back - and teach their students to do so.

And well, I think that they're pretty far from "goofed".

There are many ways. Only important thing is that you tie the belt in a way that it is taught in your dojo or in your style.

[kivikala]

I'd have to agree with the previous post, it all depends on the school or style. Mostly I think it is a personal preference, there is no "right way" nor and "wrong way". I started with Goju ryu and we tied the belt smooth with no crossover in the back. As best I can remember "everyone" did it that way. I've visited many different schools and they too tied the belt with no cross. It was only in the late 70's at a tournament did I ever notice the first crossed back. No big deal. Now how about those velcro belts? I wonder if they come with pre-crossed back?

[Hobbes]

Well, like most things, the cris-cross issue is a little thing in a sea of little issues. Styles change, likes, dislikes change, new traditions are born, old ones die.

Ok I'll take a step back... if a teacher in my organization cris-crosses, he likely goofed.. not realy fair to apply that unilaterally.

Do what your school requires. I was at a seminar with Mabuni Sensei, and he had his belt cris-crossed in back. Next thing I knew many of the blackbelts were imitating him. Then I heard him comment one day about all these sloppy cris-crossed belts by his upper ranks. Its like a bloody disease... once it starts... there are all kinds of pet theories that keeps it going... Heh.. I think its a riot. So what's correct? a half windsor or a full windsor... the debate has been going on for decades.