Years in training or weeks at the shooting range?

[broomhilda000]

Well said MArtial. I have seen the statistics to. A firearm can and mostly likely will ward or discourage an attacker from going any further, but again if you can't carry a firearm then this doesn't matter.

[Kirves]

I never saw it, myself.

 

I guess something just went wrong when I posted it.

[Kirves]

But, again, the laws of a nation do not change how effective a firearm is as a firearm.

 

Of course that is correct. My point was merely that there isn't one single "correct" answer for everyone to the question which one is more effective, or sensible/smart. Ideally, one should learn both. In my country, all men are required to do their military service for the country thus all men here have been adequately trained in the use of all kinds of firearms, pistols, shotguns, assault rifles, snipers, machine guns, bazookas, grenades and so on. And that is no sport shooting, but real combat training. So around here it is not about wether or not you can use the gun. It is just that owning and using one is illegal and do you want to risk carrying an illegal gun on you. So, it is a personal issue with no clear "this is the best way" answer.

 

Another problem with guns is that it is hard to limit the damage you do with it, it is sort of an all-or-nothing weapon. If you work in a grocery store and your drunk neighbour tries to steal some beer, you probably won't start shooting at him in the store. Yet, with a little martial arts training, you can deal with the situation in a manner that is non-hostile and eventually calms the situation down completely. Guns have their place in a self defence repertoire, but so do martial arts. And neither is better, just better suited for different situations.

[Martial_Artist]

Kirves,

 

Precisely. Each serves its own purpose. And each must be used at the discretion of the user. I think both complete the picture and give you every possible option. You can use empty-handed techniques to handle your drunk neighbor or a gun to defend your life against armed thugs. But I agree with you.

 

There is a saying in firearms training circles. "If all you carry is a hammer, then all your problems start to look like nails." In the defensive handgun world it is always stressed that the gun is the last option, only to be used when there is absolutely nothing else you can do. This is because it is a great responsibilty to wield a firearm, and it is not to be taken lightly. Almost every single defensive pistol class I know of always teaches the handgun user to carry other options. I.e. pepperspray, a knife, auto-baton, etc. Something else that might deter the fight or diffuse the situation. And, almost every gun school almost always also has an empty-handed class to teach the gun user that the gun isn't and shouldn't be the only tool you carry.

 

I think we got some good ideas out and discussed them well.

 

MA.

[ninjanurse]

It depends. Are you more willing to hit someone or kill them?

Does it matter? If you're not willing to kill someone you shouldn't train in martial arts for the purpose of defending yourself. Unwillingness to kill is a sure way to get killed in a fight.

 

[Jade_Lotus]

I would have to agree with Martial_Artist. You should train to be effective at both. I am unable to answer the poll, simply because I cannot choose one over the other. When seeking to learn to defend yourself, it would only make sense to learn all there is to know, to cover all aspects, so as to not be caught unprepared. A handgun, is extremely effective for self-defense. It is most effective, for those situations where the immediate defense of LIFE is necessary. Any law-abiding, responsible handgun owner would not shoot someone unless his life, or the life of his loved ones is in IMMEDIATE danger. As with any tool of self-defense a handgun is not appropriate for every situation.

 

But lets be smart about this. If faced with a situation where someone is trying to kill, let's say your child or your wife. You would the most efficient means to stop the attacker. You'd want the fasted way possible to remove them from the danger.

 

But all in all, you should be proficient at both. If firearms are not available to you, then you are doing well to learn all that can in the martial arts. After all, that's what we should all be doing reguardless.

[cross]

Neither.

[Warp Spider]

It's worth considering that guns have more uses than just shooting people repeatedly until they stop moving. Just as you can use martial arts to inflict varying degrees of harm, you can use a handgun similarly. For the lightest amount of punishment you can use a pistolwhip, which is not a pleasant thing to have happen to you but is decidedly non-lethal. "Less than lethal" rounds are also availible if that's your fancy. If the laws weren't so anal retentive I'd carry a compact submachinegun all the time, but unfortunately I can't, so until I've finished building a substitute that, while similar in function, does not technically fall under the definition of a firearm, I'll have to stick with fighting.

[Sens55]

I know it's an old thread, but I say "both". Each has situations that they are more suited to than the other. One of the first self-defense lessons taught is how to be aware of your surroundings and to not look like a victim. By the same token, displaying a gun can, in the right context, make would-be wrongdoers think twice about their intentions.

 

State laws vary concerning carrying, displaying and concealing a weapon so don't get yourself in trouble. However, my job requires me to travel all over my city, sometimes in areas that aren't the best. I ALWAYS have a pistol tucked away. I am absolutely certain that this saved me from harm. I was in a part of town where there were locals with a lot of time on their hand during the middle of the day. They decided they wanted to investigate me at a stoplight. The were basically circling my car, peeking inside at me and my car as well as checking out who might be looking. I slid my pistol out of its hiding place and placed it in a location where it was VERY easy for the closest visitor to see while I made eye contact with him. I did my best to make it clear that I meant business if he did. Upon seeing the gun he shouted something to the others and they walked on.

 

Now, it's worth noting that in different settings it wouldn't have concerned me as much. I'm 6' almost 300' lbs. I'm not in the best shape of my life, but still in good enough shape to take care of myself. I've studied MA off an on most of my life and spent over 15 years in the Army in units where Combatives were taught regularly. I only say this to point out that I, generally speaking, do not look like, and am not, an easy target. However, sitting in my car at a stoplight, there wasn't much I could've done if they'd have tried to carjack me. One guy was standing in front of me, another in the back, so I couldn't move without hitting someone (which was an option). But to the 4 or 5 of them I alone was not a deterrent, however my Beretta was. One last thing. If someone breaks into my house in the middle of the night, regardless of my MA skills (or lack there of), the intruder will be greeted with the business end of my Remington 12 guage. Period.

[kabron]

Remember you aren't learning Martial Arts only to learn Self-Defense, you get much more out of it than that. Ask Chuck Norris, I doubt he has been in very many street fights, but he is over 60 and looks like he is in his late 30's because of his intense training.

 

Also you must realize if somebody is going to pull a gun on you than you are most-likely in a dark area where nobody is around and unless they are crazy they aren't going to kill you -- give them the 40 dollars in your wallet and they will leave; I know many Martial Artist who have been in that position, did they risk their life or their very small amount of money? The money. A good remedy to that problem would be to avoid going to un crowded dark areas --- that simple, no Martial Arts ability needed.

 

And realize well over 65 percent of physical confrontations, school, or sports environment. Now how often are people in these areas carrying a gun? --- Almost Never.

 

You here it all the time from your average Joe who doubts the ability of the human body, "What are you going to do when I pull a gun?" Please when you hear that say in a calm voice, "Do you have a gun now" they will respond,"No" then to flush their idea just continue with,"How could you pull a gun on me now then?"

 

Guns are just a clumsy piece of equipment when used by most people. Don't let them scare you to much - but always be afraid, it will keep the Martial Arts instict alive