Ring the closest thing to the street?

[Icetuete]

Icetuete wrote:

 

it might be difficult for a single cop to handle a gang of thugs carrying chains/baseball bats/knives etc all by him self

 

Ahem. It "might" be difficult for any one of us, even Bruce Lee himself!

 

yes indeed - it might even be REALLY difficult. but as i already said; the cop is better suited for it than e.g. a martial artist like us.

[Kirves]

This is an endorsement for the ring being a better test of a fighter.

 

Very true. But my intention for this thread was not determining how to test who's the best fighter, but how to test an art for street self defence.

 

But I agree with your post in general.

[GreenDragon]

Nothing I say is ever good enough for you is it Kirves!? Just kidding.

 

As with most things, it sounds like your interpretation of my post is a matter of perspective and incomplete communication. Let's try this: Where I said "This is an endorsement for the ring being a better test of a fighter."

 

Change that and suppliment to: "This is an endorsement for the ring being a better test of an art for street self-defense, because if a ring fighter can beat someone who is in amazing physical condition and is highly trained, they can certainly beat the pants off of the typical Joe Thug in the street."

 

And of course on the other side of the coin "This is an endorsement for the life of a street cop/security guard, etc. being the best test of fighting skills." Changes to "This is an endorsement for the life of a street cop/security guard, etc. being the best test of an art for street self-defense, because he will actually be defending himself in the street with no rules and his typical opponent will be far more desperate and determined to stay out of prison than an opponent in a ring.

 

There, that's better. Howya like me now Kirvy? Oh, excellent post by the way, yours is a point that I'm sure not many had thought of.

 

GreenDragon

[Kirves]

Haha! As I said, generally, I agree with you. Just that when things get a bit complicated, it is hard to communicate without slight misunderstandings. Then one tries to make a point by repeating it and that is annoying for both parties. It is 0:40 AM here and I am going to bed.

 

Oh, BTW, you said: " he will actually be defending himself in the street with no rules", often there are rules, a cop, a guard, a bouncer, a prison guard, whatever, must obey the laws and do things "by the book", so actually there are rules that bind the hands of the pro but not the hands of the criminal. Haha! Just had to find something to throw at ya!

 

I guess we agree to agree on this issue, so I rest my case.

 

[Kirves]

For those who think that being a cop somehow makes the opponents be nicer towards you, read the story of Sampson: http://www.lwcbooks.com/crouching_tiger.html

 

[ZR440]

Nothing I say is ever good enough for you is it Kirves!? Just kidding.

 

As with most things, it sounds like your interpretation of my post is a matter of perspective and incomplete communication. Let's try this: Where I said "This is an endorsement for the ring being a better test of a fighter."

 

Change that and suppliment to: "This is an endorsement for the ring being a better test of an art for street self-defense, because if a ring fighter can beat someone who is in amazing physical condition and is highly trained, they can certainly beat the pants off of the typical Joe Thug in the street."

 

And of course on the other side of the coin "This is an endorsement for the life of a street cop/security guard, etc. being the best test of fighting skills." Changes to "This is an endorsement for the life of a street cop/security guard, etc. being the best test of an art for street self-defense, because he will actually be defending himself in the street with no rules and his typical opponent will be far more desperate and determined to stay out of prison than an opponent in a ring.

 

There, that's better. Howya like me now Kirvy? Oh, excellent post by the way, yours is a point that I'm sure not many had thought of.

 

GreenDragon

 

If that is what was really meant, I totally disagree with both parts of it. A good ring fighter will not stop a bullet or knife from Joe Thug, and the street cop does not equal a good fighter. They are better trained to read situations and respond appropriately. And it's not like it was a ten years ago or more. Police call for backup on everything now.

[Kirves]

A good ring fighter will not stop a bullet or knife from Joe Thug, and the street cop does not equal a good fighter. They are better trained to read situations and respond appropriately.

 

You prove my point. My point was that ring is not the street. And even a street is not another street. One person on one street is different than another person on another street. Our needs and potentials differ, so do our needs. One art suits one person while another art suits another person. There is no one answer to "the ultimate self defence" need.

And it's not like it was a ten years ago or more. Police call for backup on everything now.

 

Depends on where you are on this Earth. Remember, not everyone doing martial arts, being a cop, or discussing on this forum, lives in the U.S. And sometimes it takes time for backup to arrive.

 

Just to make a point: one thing about cops has been in the news lately a lot here in Finland. That thing is the time it takes for at least one patrol to come to the scene of emergency. In Finland, people live far and between, and there's a very small number of cops per square kilometer. There have been lots of complaints that it may take an hour or more for the first patrol to arrive from the call. And it may take half an hour for the next patrol to arrive when it's apparent more backup is needed. A normal fight takes a few seconds, some minutes at best. You just can't rely on things like "the backup will come and help us, so no worries".

 

In Finland, the worst crimes are done by local biker gangs and the Russian mafia. When they hit together, it is war. Add to that, the fact that in half of Finland it takes anywhere up to an hour for the first police patrol to arrive, you get some pretty bad situations. But you can't compare the streets of Finland to the streets of U.S. or the streets of Saigon. Every place is different, and the best survival skills differ according to where you are. Also the laws differ, in some places you can kill someone who attacks you, in another place you will be convicted of murder if you do so. So there is no one art or style or range that will help you. And that brings this rant back to the point: you need to check where you are and ask the people who use their skills right there daily. If you are afraid you're going to get mugged in N.Y., then ask the people who do it professionally in N.Y. if you need to defend your self in South Africa, ask the people who do it there professionally, and so on. The ring is not "the closest thing" to the street as you can't even define which street you are talking about. Phew. Rant over.

[ZR440]

Well said.

[yellowsnow]

Ring fights or NHB fights (vale tudo) are the closest legal thing to a street fight. When they are soooo different also!! there are sooo many other factors in street fighting its not funny, like no REF! so when your tapping out its over, in the street your gunna get beat up till HE IS DONE, not you! or vice versa

 

YS

[hobbitbob]

I hate to burst your collective bubbles, but Police Officers who wish to "test their skills" as you put it are likely to end up behind bars. Police techniques are designed to do the least amount of damage. The smelliest, lowliest street thug usually has a wonderful lawyer!

 

Let's not forget that to become a police officer one has to pass a psychological examination (even in Baltimore!) that is designed to weed out those looking for "fun."

 

Seventeen years as an EMT and Paramedic in Denver, Seattle, and Baltimore have given me plenty of experiences with police officers and with "baddies." I know many police officers who study Karate, and most of them will tell you that were they to use percussive techniques on a suspect, they would lose their badges and livelihoods so fast it would make your head spin. Even in a (relatively) conservative area like the Denver Metro area the sympathy is mostly with the arrestee, not the policeman. And if the arestee is a minority and the officer white, any effort to subdue the perpetrator had better be gentle indeed!