Six months - year of Pankration vs.10+years of asian arts.

[MuayThai Fighter]

In Pankration (combination of Muay Thai and Submission Wrestling)a greek art of combat dating as far back as the time of the gladiator days has come back after having been banned for centuries.

 

An example of how Pankration is compared to traditional asian arts.

 

In most arts it takes about 4yrs to get to black belt and about 10 to really be close to effective,even then most of the techniques from the katas are never going to be as effective as one from these arts have been made to believe.

 

In Pankration,it takes only 6 months to a year to be able to be an effective fighter and equal that of a black belt of other styles that take several years,sometimes even to be able to beat a black belt,keeping us ahead of the game.For this reason Pankration is becoming the current and future art to be studied.

 

How is it Pankrationist can be so much ahead? Simple,we train to fight both for the ring and for the street.Other styles train for various reasons and are a way of expressing themselves through kata.It is true that many karate kas for example also sparr,however it is for points,where as in MuayThai and Submission wrestling it is to the point of being knocked out,choked or tapping out just as would be expected in a real situation,except we still follow rules,but not as limited as in traditional arts.

 

Traditional arts simply is not a real martial arts,it is without a doubt still an art though.The word "martial" is a word used for combat,and traditional arts although originally invented for those reasons,simply would not work in reality and just became a part of the Japanese tradition and tradition of many other countries and is simply missunderstood for being an art of self-defense.

 

For traditionalists to claim their art is the best in self-defense and sparring is simply just not true and is in the mind of most of them,who would like to believe it is true.

 

No doubt traditional arts can be fun if it's what you're into,but as far as self-defense,only full contact arts will work.However not everyone does martial arts for fighting.

 

This is all based on MY experience and opinion,others may disagree due to their own experience and opinion,so do NOT take what I have said as an offense.

 

If you disagree with everything and want to argue it please do so POLITELY without any name calling or swearing.

 

This place is only for opinions,debate and discussion purposes.

[WhiteBelt]

Yay, more TMA vs MMA (mixed or modern)...

 

How about Pankration is TMA because it's so old? How about the eastern TMA no longer train the way they used to. Hence they are no longer as effective at fighting and self defense and have evolved for more peaceful times? Besides, any MA can make a fighter because they are just tools and the person is the fighter. The person has to develope the skills, the mind, the body, the willpower to fight.

 

Though, I'm glad you enjoy Pankration.

 

PS, if Pankration is ancient Greek then how is it a combination of Muay Thai and submission wrestling?

[MuayThai Fighter]

Yay, more TMA vs MMA (mixed or modern)...

 

How about Pankration is TMA because it's so old? How about the eastern TMA no longer train the way they used to. Hence they are no longer as effective at fighting and self defense and have evolved for more peaceful times? Besides, any MA can make a fighter because they are just tools and the person is the fighter. The person has to develope the skills, the mind, the body, the willpower to fight.

 

Though, I'm glad you enjoy Pankration.

 

PS, if Pankration is ancient Greek then how is it a combination of Muay Thai and submission wrestling?

 

Yes Pankration in a sense is traditional however it does change with the times which is why I don't call it traditional and also to show the difference between the old asian arts and those of today whether they have progressed or not.

 

Pankration has always and will always be effective for real fighting due to its constant progression with the times and it being a mixed martial arts of true combat.

 

You're absolutely right the techniques in martial arts are just tools,however it is only realistic tools that will help someone to be a true fighter.Teaching a person correctly by giving him the right tools is different from giving a person tools to fighting that are just simply unrealistic.

 

The same is as teaching a baby to walk.Moving his/her legs are the tools for walking but if you don't teach a baby how to properly use his legs,he will never walk correctly.

 

A person developes the proper skills,the mind,body and will power through proper training,confidence and determination.

 

If skills weren't important for a fighter in martial arts then anyone could do martial arts and win in a fight.

 

Katas and point sparring are not tools to becoming a proper fighter, if you're talking about full contact or self-defense on street.

 

It is only through proper training can one develope the skills of a true martial arts fighter,which then leads to more confidence and determination.

 

you asked "if Pankration is ancient Greek then how is it a combination of Muay Thai and submission wrestling?"

 

A very good question,seemed strange to me first time I heard that too.

 

Muay Thai and Submission Wrestling although not greek arts of combat,it is the greeks that came up with the idea of mixing the two,realising that an effective martial arts needs training in both stand up and grappling.They knew that Muay Thai on its own was considered the most brutal of all arts and very dangerous for stand up fighting anyways,and figured mixing it with grappling would make it even more effective.

 

Pankration was so deadly that the gov't at one time took it out of the early Olympics and even banned the art all together, only now is it coming back to existance and slowly spreading every where around the world,soon to be once again recognized in Olympics again.

 

Today it is practiced just as it was back then but with more skill and some rules as well as some changes and adding new stuff all the time,making the art more effective and dangerous to use then ever, if it were to be used on street.

[AndrewGreen]

Couple of things:

 

Boxing was considered more dangerous then Pankration in the early olympics.

 

It was the Romans that got rid of it.

 

Originally it had nothing to do with Muay Thai. It was basically NHB fighting, there are many vases and other artifacts whic depict it but its impossible to know what they actually did.

 

Boxing did not contain kicks, that was unique to pankration.

 

Victory was determined by submission.

 

It is not practiced as it was then, and there is really no reason why it should.

 

No safety equipment, competing naked & oiled, groin grabbing and finger breaking allowed.... That wouldn't go over well...

[MuayThai Fighter]

Couple of things:

 

Boxing was considered more dangerous then Pankration in the early olympics.

 

It was the Romans that got rid of it.

 

Originally it had nothing to do with Muay Thai. It was basically NHB fighting, there are many vases and other artifacts whic depict it but its impossible to know what they actually did.

 

Boxing did not contain kicks, that was unique to pankration.

 

Victory was determined by submission.

 

It is not practiced as it was then, and there is really no reason why it should.

 

No safety equipment, competing naked & oiled, groin grabbing and finger breaking allowed.... That wouldn't go over well...

 

Actually I can argue that,because that is where you are wrong,boxing has never been and will never be considered more dangerous then Pankration even in the early Olympics.Boxing may have been around before Pankration,but that I'm not sure of,however I do know the romans were impressed by Pankration at the very beginning because of its various ranges of fighting.

 

You are right Muay Thai originally had nothing to do with Pankration,however there was still fighting from standing up and taking person to ground,adding a few skills by adding MuayThai and Submission Wrestling is what made it as it is today,but the idea still came from the Greeks.

 

Perhaps the romans got rid of it eventually in their Olympics but it did eventually disappear completely even from the greeks who invented the art.

 

Another thing you are wrong about is victory was not determined by submission it was determined by death,since it was around the same time as the gladiators,today it is determined by submission.

 

Only the rules have changed not the art.The art has only improved.

 

Next Pankration is still practiced with no equipment other then mouth guard and grappling gloves.In Pankration head gear,boxing gloves and shin pads are not used,depending on rules of the country.

 

In Canada we don't use the boxing gloves,head gear,or shin pads in Pankration fights,we only use those if we're fighting Muay Thai by itself.It is true we don't grab groin or break fingers,but that's only because we're more civilized these days.However if we did it would be more dangerous.

 

We can still punch opponent on ground until he taps out or gets knocked out.

 

My point is Pankration although it may have a few more rules then back then, it still has very few rules, and less then other styles .

 

Shows how little you know about Pankration.

[SevenStar]

look into bare knuckle boxing (old style pugilism) and you'll see that you actually can't argue that...

[hogwan]

In Pankration,it takes only 6 months to a year to be able to be an effective fighter and equal that of a black belt of other styles that take several years,sometimes even to be able to beat a black belt,keeping us ahead of the game.For this reason Pankration is becoming the current and future art to be studied.

 

Sorry to burst any superior bubbles...6 months training can mean crap or it can mean real development depending on who one is training with and how they are being trained. It also has to do with the individual.

 

I find it laughable for anyone to generally suggest that their 'system' is so far advanced....

 

All systems work, it comes down to training and understanding. 6 months to compare to a serious equal of 4-5 years?

 

Come on give your head a shake....sounds a bit too much like club propaganda.

 

I'm not saying a 6 months (your figure not mine) won't make one an effective fighter..but I seriously doubt there can be a accurate comparison from months to years.

 

And as far as styles go,...they are meaningless...when will people understand that?

[SevenStar]

styles are indeed meaningless. Training methods are not...

 

That said, some people simply train better than others. And in general, Sport styles do have that advantage.

 

Anyway, back to the discussion...

[Kensai]

"Pankration (combination of Muay Thai and Submission Wrestling)."

 

So a GREEK art, has moves from a art all the way from THAILAND! Some 5000 miles east, when the Greek Empire bearly brenched its own nations borders.......

[hogwan]

Thanks SevenStar; that was my point TRAINING ..not the style name!

 

I am glad someone else agrees with me!

 

And with that 6 months training to 4 years training? Who would you rather have your back in the pub parking lot?

 

'nuff said.