The belt is in the ring

[WhiteBelt]

Yes all things are part of the bigger picture. One part being weapons which the ring does not account for, among other things. I agree with people who do very well in the ring are no doubt tough and can handle themselves. I disagree with it being 'the place' to test your overall skill in MA, or self-defense skills. Put an expert in Kali with a machette against an unarmed Muay Thai expert... is it unfair? Yes, but weapons are a part of the street.

[SevenStar]

Agreed. Situations like that will indeed be rare though, they should still be accounted for. you will not see most of your traditional weapons in the street, but may very well see small knives and sticks. For that reason, kali would do most people alot of good.

 

On a side note though, vs. an untrained person with a stick, I'd still put my money on the muay thai guy.

[WhiteBelt]

I brought up the machette because it happened in my city a couple of days ago. A woman had both hands chopped off by her crazy neighbour, who weilded a machette.

[SevenStar]

Nasty. How is the woman now?

[karate_woman]

Nasty. How is the woman now?

She is apparently in intensive care and has been able to move some of her fingers. Her family is moving her out of her townhouse, and her future is uncertain, since she is a single mom that babysits to earn her income and she'll need the use of her hands to support her family.

[MuayThai Fighter]

The life span of the practitioners will prove nothing, because very few adults out there who started MA training after their teen years will ever get attacked in the street. Consequently, most of them will never really have to use their skills.

 

As far as being in the ring, it's the closest thing available to being able to test your skills in the street, and while they are not the same animal, the skills techniques you learn to apply in the ring WILL transfer into the street - learning how to deal with taking a hit and the adrenaline rush, hitting a fully resisting opponent at full speed, etc. These are things that you WILL NOT learn from semi contact sparring and self defense drills.

 

Bottom line: self defense drilling, full contact fighting, competition, kata, etc. are all smaller parts of a bigger picture. All of them complement, but are not whole on their own.

 

"As far as being in the ring, it's the closest thing available to being able to test your skills in the street, and while they are not the same animal, the skills techniques you learn to apply in the ring WILL transfer into the street - learning how to deal with taking a hit and the adrenaline rush, hitting a fully resisting opponent at full speed, etc. These are things that you WILL NOT learn from semi contact sparring and self defense drills."

 

I totally agree with you here,it has been my point the whole time.

[hobbitbob]

The concept of "the ring" is pretty much meaningless for those of us who practice karate as a method of self-defence and personal growth. I sincerely doubt that any of the techniques I have used in self-defence, which usually included damaging or destroying joints and blood vessels, would be allowed in a sporting arena. I don't beleive in "freindly punch-ups" in the pub. If I am going to fight, it is because the other choice is my dying!

[delta1]

Another poll I'm not voting in. You only give the two extreme points of view. There has to be a well rounded approach to testing that includes basic skills, knowlege and understanding, and fighting skills. I have to agree with Sevenstar-"Bottom line: self defense drilling, full contact fighting, competition, kata, etc. are all smaller parts of a bigger picture. All of them complement, but are not whole on their own." There is a lot that goes into making a well rounded martial artist. I personally think that fighting with contact, and the option to take it to the ground, is important at higher levels. But it isn't the only thing that's important.

[MuayThai Fighter]

Yes all things are part of the bigger picture. One part being weapons which the ring does not account for, among other things. I agree with people who do very well in the ring are no doubt tough and can handle themselves. I disagree with it being 'the place' to test your overall skill in MA, or self-defense skills. Put an expert in Kali with a machette against an unarmed Muay Thai expert... is it unfair? Yes, but weapons are a part of the street.

 

Use a weapon against any style not just Muay Thai and we'd all lose except the guy with the weapon,that 's an obvious statement.However on the street how many of the traditional weapons could actually be used in a real fight?

 

The bo would never be used but of course using a board found on street could be used in same way to block or strike so I would say that is a good weapon to learn,provided you'd be fighting against a knife or someone else with a board.

 

No one carries a tonfa or sai with them and never could use a piece of wood in same way to block a knife.On the street there is no time to get all fancy and it's not about showing off some cool techniques.

 

Now use a gun,and whether you know martial arts or not you can kiss your life good bye.

 

What's my point? My point is it's useless to bring up weapons even from kali,because it is obvious you're not going to use a weapon in the ring or any sparring match.An unarmed person against any armed person will lose in most cases.

 

In most street fights a weapon still today is hardly ever used anyways ,just because the media makes it sound like it happens all the time or more often now then before doesn't mean it is really that serious,infact knives being used in a fight is mainly used by teenagers who want to act tough infront of their friends or belong to a gang.

 

Fighting unarmed is more a part of the street then with weapons.Infact some fights are fought 5 or more on one these days without weapons,however even that is rare unless you're in your teens or early 20's.

 

So I would say that the ring is as close as you will get to the real thing and is the best place to prove your skills.

 

Besides the forum has nothing to do with fighting with weapons.

[MuayThai Fighter]

Another poll I'm not voting in. You only give the two extreme points of view. There has to be a well rounded approach to testing that includes basic skills, knowlege and understanding, and fighting skills. I have to agree with Sevenstar-"Bottom line: self defense drilling, full contact fighting, competition, kata, etc. are all smaller parts of a bigger picture. All of them complement, but are not whole on their own." There is a lot that goes into making a well rounded martial artist. I personally think that fighting with contact, and the option to take it to the ground, is important at higher levels. But it isn't the only thing that's important.

 

I agree to an extent,you are correct that fighting to the ground isn't the only important thing,I never said it was,however it is the most important thing for true well rounded martial arts fighter.After all most stand up fights eventually go to the ground even in real life.

 

Basic skill and knowledge and understanding are important,because if you don't have the knowledge or understanding of techniques you won't be able to use them in sparring not properly anyways and your fighting ability will be limited.However I do believe once you have the knowledge and understanding of your techniques the ring is the only way to prove it.

 

I also believe katas have nothing to do with it and shouldn't even be a part of the martial arts,because proper knowledge and understanding of techniques doesn't come from katas.You can do all the katas in the world,even know the bunkai,and it's going to do crap in the ring.

 

To properly learn techniques,they should only be shown and practiced on another person to fully understand the techniques and to be able to apply them properly.

 

So for example if I wanted to teach you how to punch properly,I would show you on a student , then get the students to practice on one another,instead of practicing techniques in the air and going across the floor.All techniques should be practiced only on a partner and once in awhile on shields for power and speed.

 

To be a good fighter you have to know what it is like to hit something,get hit hard and to hit back.Punching,kicking and practicing blocks in air through katas just doesn't cut it for being a good fighter.