The belt is in the ring

[MuayThai Fighter]

There's a huge difference between white belt and black belt in karate and other traditional arts but in reality what does any belt really mean?

 

In most traditional arts black belt means the technique in doing katas has improved by alot from time you started and you know enough to teach,and most karate kas at any level can do point sparring.

 

However when it comes to the ring how good is their belt level?

 

In my opinion the real belt is in the ring,that's where you truely get to show how good you have become with not just techniques learnt from katas but techniques learnt from traing for full contact sparring in class.In fact I think katas are useless and should be taken out.

 

A grading should be based on how hard you train and your ability to apply the techniques you have learnt for a real sparring match.

 

So when it comes down to it the real test and belt is from the ring.

 

Any one agree here?

[martialartist1]

the real test is what the individual wants to test himself for. test for fighter in the ring, win for ring belt. test for kata performer achieve kata style belt. its as simple as that.

[karate_woman]

In my case, "in the ring" fights would prove absolutely nothing, as our sparring fights are semi-contact at the most. In addition, fighting in the ring takes away a lot of our moves, that can be demonstrated/tested in other ways.

 

I get a charge out of both grappling and sparring, but I'm looking for a more all around experience, myself. For black belt we did a number of tests - sparring and defending against unplanned attacks from multiple opponents, demonstrating understanding of bunkai, and the ability to adapt to the situation among them. The test went on for hours, and we were stiff for several days afterwards in spite of our training. I still trained through the stiffness, though - it was a good stiffness that made me feel alive

[MuayThai Fighter]

In my case, "in the ring" fights would prove absolutely nothing, as our sparring fights are semi-contact at the most. In addition, fighting in the ring takes away a lot of our moves, that can be demonstrated/tested in other ways.

 

I get a charge out of both grappling and sparring, but I'm looking for a more all around experience, myself. For black belt we did a number of tests - sparring and defending against unplanned attacks from multiple opponents, demonstrating understanding of bunkai, and the ability to adapt to the situation among them. The test went on for hours, and we were stiff for several days afterwards in spite of our training. I still trained through the stiffness, though - it was a good stiffness that made me feel alive

 

If you want an all round experience in martial arts take a mixed martial arts like muay thai and grappling together,after a short while you'd be able to prove yourself in the ring and it would mean alot more then your semi-contact sparring and fancy techniques and give your black belt level a brand new meaning.With all rounded martial arts,it is easy to adapt to any situation whether in stand up or on ground.

[karate_woman]

To you, perhaps.

 

You have absolutely no idea what my exposure to judo, jujitsu, karate, sambo, self defense, kobudo, kick boxing, t'ai chi and qi gong have actually given me in terms of techniques, or meaning for that matter. You can sneer at my black belt if you wish - it is just a step along the way to be frank - but I have learned this: never underestimate your opponent.

 

I don't have to step into a ring to prove myself, but if I were to do it, I would be up against women within a few pounds of myself. I'm about 125 lbs, so if I "prove myself" against a 130 lb woman, how does that prepare me adequately when I am attacked by a 260 lb man?

 

Let's say I became the World Champion Kickboxing/Muay Thai/ whatever fighter for women in my weight division. Besides inflating my ego, what purpose would it serve? Why would that title be more valuable than the training I have done over the years? Winning competitions of any sort is certainly an enjoyable experience, but to measure the worth of your training solely based on your experience in the ring cheapens it somehow. What happens when you have to retire from the ring? Is your self worth/training then diminished? Are you then a has been, or if you never made it - a never was? Can your self esteem then be salvaged by being a trainer for one of the up-and-coming fighters?

[MuayThai Fighter]

To you, perhaps.

 

You have absolutely no idea what my exposure to judo, jujitsu, karate, sambo, self defense, kobudo, kick boxing, t'ai chi and qi gong have actually given me in terms of techniques, or meaning for that matter. You can sneer at my black belt if you wish - it is just a step along the way to be frank - but I have learned this: never underestimate your opponent.

 

I don't have to step into a ring to prove myself, but if I were to do it, I would be up against women within a few pounds of myself. I'm about 125 lbs, so if I "prove myself" against a 130 lb woman, how does that prepare me adequately when I am attacked by a 260 lb man?

 

Let's say I became the World Champion Kickboxing/Muay Thai/ whatever fighter for women in my weight division. Besides inflating my ego, what purpose would it serve? Why would that title be more valuable than the training I have done over the years? Winning competitions of any sort is certainly an enjoyable experience, but to measure the worth of your training solely based on your experience in the ring cheapens it somehow. What happens when you have to retire from the ring? Is your self worth/training then diminished? Are you then a has been, or if you never made it - a never was? Can your self esteem then be salvaged by being a trainer for one of the up-and-coming fighters?

 

There is a difference betweening winning and proving yourself.I never said a person has to win all his/her fights to prove themselves.However showing your techniques and being able to handle yourself in a full contact fight whether you win or not can show how good you are.

 

Whether you lose in a karate tournament or muay thai tournament,chances are you still did better as a muay thai fighter.

 

When a person retires from the ring I wouldn't say his /her self-worth diminishes,because by then you've done what you wanted and needed to do,also you can teach instead of fighting or take up another art of realistic defense.When I stop fighting in ring,I will probably just teach or take up something else.

 

When you are older you don't usually care about competeing anymore or what is realistic and what isn't anyways, so in that case the fighting means nothing,but when you're younger it does or should anyways.

[WhiteBelt]

The ring is worthless in proving what you know for self-defense. How often are you attacked on the street with a ref near by and some bikini girl with the round number handy? If you are jumped by a gang in the ring and didn't know it was coming, but some how survive, then I'll agree with the poll. Unless of course, all you care about is competition.

[MuayThai Fighter]

The ring is worthless in proving what you know for self-defense. How often are you attacked on the street with a ref near by and some bikini girl with the round number handy? If you are jumped by a gang in the ring and didn't know it was coming, but some how survive, then I'll agree with the poll. Unless of course, all you care about is competition.

 

HA HA HA HA HA,you're hilarious.Good point though,never thought of it like that.Gotta love those bikin girls.

 

Anyways,of course it's not exactly like a street fight no martial arts is,but some arts are closer to the real thing then others and Pankration is the closest to a real fight.Take away the judges and rules and you have a real fight.

 

You are being unrealistic though,chances of a gang jumping in the ring to jump you is 0%,I can understand on the street though.Anyone who tries to fight a gang on their own regardless of martial arts and experience is an idiot.

 

The chances of being attacked by gang even on the street is very low unless you yourself belong to a gang or did something to piss them off in first place.Gang members usually go after other gang members so why even bring that up.

 

When a fight is 5 or more on one,it is usually among teens at least here in Canada anyways.

 

One on one whether in ring or in a real fight the Pankration fighter will win almost every time.

 

The less rules a Pankration fighter has to follow the more deadly he becomes, so on the street where there is no rules his chances of winning a fight is very high.

[WhiteBelt]

I brought in the gang to show how the ring is nothing like the street. Even without any rules what-so-ever it is not the same atmosphere, and not the same environment. Also, I have been attacked by gangs before I returned to MA training. All I had at the time was basic karate training to save my butt, and it worked because I was realistic about what to do and not some hero.

 

I'm not saying Pankration is ineffective; I'm disagreeing with the ring being the place to prove your self-defense. A realistic method of proving an art's worth for self-defense would be the lifespan of it's practitioners...

[SevenStar]

The life span of the practitioners will prove nothing, because very few adults out there who started MA training after their teen years will ever get attacked in the street. Consequently, most of them will never really have to use their skills.

 

As far as being in the ring, it's the closest thing available to being able to test your skills in the street, and while they are not the same animal, the skills techniques you learn to apply in the ring WILL transfer into the street - learning how to deal with taking a hit and the adrenaline rush, hitting a fully resisting opponent at full speed, etc. These are things that you WILL NOT learn from semi contact sparring and self defense drills.

 

Bottom line: self defense drilling, full contact fighting, competition, kata, etc. are all smaller parts of a bigger picture. All of them complement, but are not whole on their own.