G95champ Posted June 13, 2003 Posted June 13, 2003 Thats the same point I made. I said it is not a real fight. Its pretty close. But its far from real. The thing is in a real fight you never know who, what, when, where, why, etc. In the UFC you do... I can take my football team and practice them for weeks but its not the same as a game. When Im in the guard or being mounted the quickets way I have learned to get the guy off me is to dig my fingers into his throat. Don't see that much in the UFC do you???? Lets say Im a grappler and I miss a shoot I fall to my knees. I know the guy fighting me is a striker. Im down on all 4's. In a real fight that striker is going to kick me in the teeth and prob. KO me. But in the UFC I know im fine. He may punch me and if he does jump on me thats a plus for me. Because im the grappler and I want to go down. RIGHT???? No question there has to be rules because saftey is always frist. However don't say strikers are less fighters because they don't win the UFC thats like saying Basketball players are not good athletes because they can't hit a 95mph fastball. (General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory."
AndrewGreen Posted June 13, 2003 Posted June 13, 2003 When Im in the guard or being mounted the quickets way I have learned to get the guy off me is to dig my fingers into his throat. Don't see that much in the UFC do you???? Then you've never fought a grappler. IF a guy is mounted on you and you do that he will arm bar you if he knows anything about grappling.Lets say Im a grappler and I miss a shoot I fall to my knees. I know the guy fighting me is a striker. Im down on all 4's. In a real fight that striker is going to kick me in the teeth and prob. KO me. But in the UFC I know im fine. He may punch me and if he does jump on me thats a plus for me. Because im the grappler and I want to go down. RIGHT???? But this wan't always illegal in the UFC and it isn't in other events. He has to recover from his sprawl and you have to recover from your shot. If you miss your shoot, he is also a grappler, or you are not a good one.No question there has to be rules because saftey is always frist. However don't say strikers are less fighters because they don't win the UFC thats like saying Basketball players are not good athletes because they can't hit a 95mph fastball. NO ONE DID!!!! In order to fight in MMA you have to be able to strike, BUT you also have to be able to grapple. You need both, without both you will loose. I will say without both you are missing something. If you think grabbing the throat will help you are missing something, if you don't spar with limited rules you are missing something. That doesn't mean what you are doing is wrong, its just not fighting. Shotokan is great, its fun, relaxing, promotes health, relieves stress, whatever. But it is not about fighting, MMA is fighting. The sport format is as close to real fighting as we can get in a competition setting. But it is not limited to the sport format, and certainely not to the sport format of the UFC. The Dog Brothers are MMA, they use weapons, weapons aren't allowed in the UFC though. Multiple attackers can be trained in MMA, but not in competition. Should we judge Shotokan strictly by WKF sparring competition? Andrew Greenhttp://innovativema.ca - All the top martial arts news!
Beer-monster Posted June 13, 2003 Posted June 13, 2003 Thing is karate has a high discipline building and spiritual/character development, and so its not likely to change becasue of a sport. Itsb the old Karate-do not Karate-jitsu chestnut! Mind, body and fist. Its all a man truly needs.
G95champ Posted June 13, 2003 Posted June 13, 2003 In MMA events like the UFC I would say you have to be be a better grappler than striker to win or do well. Never did I not agree to that. My point is that NO great striker has ever been in a MMA event because of that reason. In MMA grapplers have a huge advantage. On the street I think strikers do because you can be one and done lots of times. BTW stopping a person from putting an arm bar on you is not a big trick. Granted I have never sparred with a GREAT grappler but those who I have were no second rate black belt and they taught me that and how it works and as of yet it has not failed. Although I don't do ground stuff a lot. (General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory."
TJS Posted June 14, 2003 Posted June 14, 2003 In MMA events like the UFC I would say you have to be be a better grappler than striker to win or do well Thats because its easier to grapple then it is to keep distantance, stay standing, and fight.My point is that NO great striker has ever been in a MMA event because of that reason. Mirko, bas rutten, Vitor, SilvaWhen Im in the guard or being mounted the quickets way I have learned to get the guy off me is to dig my fingers into his throat A) the second you extend you arm To do that it's going to get broken(assuming they are a competent grappler) B) some people have extremly conditioned necks...so i would not rely on it.Don't see that much in the UFC do you???? No because people dont like to get put in an Arm bar or a Triangle choke.The ring is soft and I can risk a hard fall. like andrew said..that favors the person getting slamed. The last point i would adress is this, You keep saying howThe gracies were the best around...etc...The reason They picked Royce to fight is so people could not use this excuse. Royce was the younger brother with the least amount of experience and Proabably skill....he was the "kid Brother" Rickson, Relson (22 time undefeated champion of brazil), rorion etc....they could have all be a diffrent ball game. You are right that the gracies were better than everyone...they were ahead of their time. Btw Royce Gracie challenged Mike Tyson publicly....i doubt there were many people in the world at the time he was afraid of.. I dont think there were any "strikers" at the time who could have beaten him..
Beer-monster Posted June 14, 2003 Posted June 14, 2003 Why does everyone constanlt mention the Gracies. They are not exactly ordinary people. They are AMAZING martial artists, the like of which have not been seen since the old masters of course they are going to beat nearly everyone. Says about as much as saying a horse will beat a disease-ridden donkey in a race. Mind, body and fist. Its all a man truly needs.
SaiFightsMS Posted June 14, 2003 Posted June 14, 2003 Topic pruned and closed to do disrespectful posting.
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