TJS Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Only because most of the karate strikes you would use in true SD that would drop a person include things like Tiger Strikes to the Throat, Elbows to the Face, Kicks to the Groin and while a man is down. The UFC has rules that stops such moves Everything you just listed was Allowed in the Early UFC's..you know the ones where a 170 pound brazilian named Royce dominated people over and over again... Royce never got got hit one..NO not ONCE (excluding his superfight against shamrock)..i would bet money you have never fought a Really good grappler..people always thing they can stop someone before they get a clinch and takedown..it's amazing that people still do.Add to that remember they are using gloves for the most part now the gloves protect hands not people.There is no comparison between UFC and real fights. so when you can punch,kick, throw,slam, choke, break, knee, elbow someone...that has nothing to do with real fighting ? none of those things would be useful? add to that headbutts, groing strikes, spine strikes, stopming a downed opponet (all things that used to be legal)etc..and it's still not a "real" fight? oh I forgot you cant bite.. karate has ground work in it suck kata as the tekki's have it hidden I can watch growund work on TV...that dosent mean yor good at it...You and i both know you dont practice it...i know what an arm bar looks like..does that mean i can pull it off in a real fight? no anyone off the street can throw a punch that dosent mean they are good at it.a ture striker has no chance of winning a UFC event because of those rules. what no biting and no eye gouging? perhaps certain stlyes should not produce "pure strikers" and tell them they are learning effective fighing/self defense? Btw i thought Shotokan had Ground work hidden in it? Lets say I punch you and you fall to one knee. Now my next move would be to kick you right in the head with a big power kick and KO you pride allowes this, as do many other oraganizations such as Vale tudo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Nice one TJS I could not agree more. I think that almost closes argument. TJS wins the fight with UFC moves only whilst G95 and others fail to apply their curious techniques. Ha HA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer-monster Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Not at all. You're right UFC is as close to a street fight a sport can get (except in multiple opponents but that had nothing to do with the current debate.) This conversation had been had thousands of time by people who wish to think their art is superior to all others. To me its different strokes, different means to the same end. I just don't think going "Ha Ha" is a good example of the martial arts mindset. Mind, body and fist. Its all a man truly needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G95champ Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Gracie was never touched? Kimo busted him up a bit and at the time he was not a grappler. But like I posted in another thread no strike of Gracies leval has ever been in the UFC. Where is Chuck Norris, Roy Jones Jr, etc. Gracie fighting the early strikers in the UFC is like him fighting me. Well not that bad but you know what Im saying. Its the Yankees playing a minor league team. The UFC is NOTHIGN like a real fight just a boxing match is NOTHING like a real fight. Why it is staged. You know who you going to fight weeks ahead of time. You know you are not going to die. You know its one on one and you don't fear going to the gound because you know his friends are not going to jump you then. You know he don't have a knife or gun. You know he cant hit you in the groin, throat, eyes, etc or he will lose. How can you even think the UFC is real. Just because it looks like a duck, talks like a duck and acts like a duck don't make it a duck. Also the element of suprise is out of the UFC which is the biggest thing in a real fight. The control of emotion. Yeah you fight in front of a few thousand people but its not the same as getting the quick burst of fear and excitment like you do on the street. BTW yes I have benn choked out by a grappler who traind with the Gracie family in Brazil. Just for your info. Your right Shotokan does have the guard, mount, and other things in it as I have stated many times inthe past. You are also right we don't work on it much. Mainly because we don't want to go down. Many McDojo schools dont even get into this aspect of karate as well so whatever. Early Shotokan was much like Judo according to several accounts I have read. Again the point is the only true strike I have seen do well in the UFC is Marcus Smith. Vetor Belfor is the best strike I have seen but he is a grappler by trade. Belfor may be my best example of how quick a good striker can end a fight. He has what 3 or 4 wins in under a minute. (General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G95champ Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Don't think I ever said that. LOL BTW Randy Couture a beat a Grappler Liddle at UFC 43 with the jab. Pretty impressive striker it seems. I know Couture was a wrestling and stuff but if you watch the fight he kept it up and just out punched Liddle. You saw the fear in Liddle when he was forced to fight a strikers fight. I will also admit that only a grappler as good as Couture could have kept Liddle standing and not been taken down. (General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 The point wasnt standup vs striking was it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 If i remember correctly it was UFC has nothing to do with real fight.......wasnt it or.....ummm.......did you conveniently forget that??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G95champ Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 What..... Yes you can strike from the ground. But honestly how many strikes do you see do that. Strikers are stand up guys. Yes you can grapple in the clinch but how many would rather be on the ground. Couture won by striking standing and in the mount. (General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G95champ Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Ghost if you are going to make a argument please do so but this double talk is just stuff that will get this thread closed. Read what I said in that the UFC is not a real fight. Every point I made was anit grappling. 1. You don't fear being jumped by friends so we can go to the ground. 2. He can't hit me in certin places so I can rish a shoot or takedown. 3. The ring is soft and I can risk a hard fall. The only rule IMO that goes against grapples is the time limit. I do think the final round should have none. (General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewGreen Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Ghost if you are going to make a argument please do so but this double talk is just stuff that will get this thread closed. Read what I said in that the UFC is not a real fight. Every point I made was anit grappling. 1. You don't fear being jumped by friends so we can go to the ground. Whether you want to or not it can end up there. Besides he won't always have friends and you won't always be alone... How does shotokan simulate this in a more realistic way?2. He can't hit me in certin places so I can rish a shoot or takedown. Like where?3. The ring is soft and I can risk a hard fall. Would you rather get slammed on the mat or on a hard surface? This favours the guy being taken down, not the guy doing the takedown.The only rule IMO that goes against grapples is the time limit. I do think the final round should have none. Standups for lack of action is a big one. Almost all the rules do one of two things: Safety - they need to keep the sport legal or Action - They need an audience, striking is more entertaining. NO ONE is claiming UFC is a "real" fight in the sense you mean, it is a real fight, but with rules as a sport. It is however the closest simulation to a real fight that we can do safely and legally right now. Andrew Greenhttp://innovativema.ca - All the top martial arts news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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