Why modern Karate doesn't work

[Neil]

Karate today is taught as a recreational, gymnastic sport. Be it the sport martial artists or the traditional. People have no understanding of how karate is applied in relation to fighting.

 

The most importnt thing in karate is kata. Kata is karate. Evereything you need to know is in your kata. Yet over 90% of the world of Martial Arts have no idea how to apply it. Yet they teachapplications from the kata as blocks, counters, high kicks, jump kicks.

 

I just want to cover different aspects of what is taught in Karate today, and comparae what is falsly beleived and what was its original application.

 

Kata:

 

Kata today is simply taught as a a bunch of shapes and techniques. People think quantitiy is better than quality. They take technqiues from the kata and turn them into blocks and such. They think the faster and the harder they do their kata the better it will be. The create huge big stances that forces them to put their bodys in all awkward positions and they require STRENGH to do a kata. Kata does not need any extra strengh such as tensing the body thinking that that will make it more powerful. This is why so many people are having knee and hip replacements all the time. They have no undertsnading of biomechanics. Biomechanics is understanding how the body works and moves. But becasue know one understands this, they are teaching people how to impend their bodys and hurt it rather than enhance it.

 

Kumite:

 

Kumite was used in Okinawa as a training drill to enhance their kata, and as a strengh and conditioning drill. This is another big thing that is wrong with karate. People actually think this is teaching people how to fight! This has nothing to do with fighting. You think someone is gojng to get into a nice stance and come forward with a nice straight punch to the head while you calmly block it out? Dreamers! In old day Okinawa people could not afford training apparutus, and the surfuces they trained on where not suitable for doing push ups, so they used this form of training drill to give them strengh and conditioning. Blocks where used to strenghen certain technqiues, for example rising block, was taught as a block against a punch to the head. This was used to STRENGHEN and CONDITION the technqiue, not as an application.

 

Application:

 

Leading on from the other one, application has to be made throguh some sort of hands-on-approach. In china and Okinawa pushing hands or sticky hands (what the wing chun uses), where used as a method of taking the movement of the kata and putting it into actual application. Most people will have no idea what pushing hands is. Some people think its what the tai chi use as this slow rolling wrists thing. When infact pushing hands is very violant and vibrant. There are two forms of this. There is one where you have one wrist connected to the other oersons wrist and you push back and fourth. The other one is similar to the tai chi one and does not use much strengh, and this time both of ytour wrists are connected. All the original karayte systems used to have this, but mainly only the Goju systems use it, but then only a few people in the Goju systems actually know of it. The whole point in pushing hands is that that you are constantly sticking to the other person, so when he tries to push into you you can FEEL him, and then you can turn movements from the kata and start finding its applications. There is never one applications to one technqieus. There are over a million applications to a front kick, a age uke etc.

 

This is the most natural and effective ways to turn movement into applications, but now no body does it or even knows of it.

 

Karate is very tactile, and has to be practiced up close since any fight is always close. But today many people think that FREE SPARRING is the way to turn movements of the kata into applications.

 

But just looking at free sparring, makes you laught, becasue people actually think that people are actually going to fight like this. I can swear that I have never had anyone start a fight with getting into a stance, and launching an attack like you see in free sparring. Free sparring is to spacious, there is not enough tactility in t to be of any use when thinking in terms of application. It was mainly Nakayama who after Funokoshis death betrayed him and turned karate into a point scoring sport when Funokoshis whish to Nkayama was not to tearn karate into a sport and commercialize it. And yet Nakayama is celebrated as a hero in the Karate world!

 

I could go on all day about this, these are just a few very basic points of why modern karate does not work. I will post more when I feel like it.

 

Please reply back with your opinions although I will ignore egotistical replys from peope who have just read the tittle and have not even bothered to read this little post. Only intelligent replys will be taken in, thank you.

 

Neil

Edited June 11, 2003 by Neil

[Kirves]

a few very basic points of why modern karate does not work

 

Perhaps you should've put the word "modern" in the title too?

[niel0092]

What are your thoughts on solutions to the current state of affairs?

[Kyokushin]

I don't know if I really agree w/ you completely. I think some things have been changed, and certain people/dojos may not do things like Kata right. But you said kata is not meant to be strong or fast or in deep stances. No not all the time necessarily, but each kata really has it's own rhythm and flow. There are parts that should be nice strong stances. Not neccesarily so deep that you look like your doing a split, but it should be strong so that you can't easily be knocked over. The same way parts of a kata should be fast. Some slow. It all depends on what kata you are doing. In my style we have this one kata Sanchin No Kata and everything is very slow and tense. It is for building strength physically and mentally b/c it is hard. Then their is Yantsu it is also slow but flows and is very beautiful. Just trying to make a point that different katas require different things. Maybe I'm am wrong. I'm not trying to discount what you're saying. That's just my opinion.

 

Osu!!

[Motion]

You think someone is gojng to get into a nice stance and come forward with a nice straight punch to the head while you calmly block it out? Dreamers!

 

I think when it's all said and done,you need to train to apply your particular style to streetfighters.

 

There is a way Karate trained people will fight, and then there is the way streetfighters will fight. Karate trained people will use "technique",but streetfighters don't care about proper punching and kicking technique. These people can be the most difficult to handle. This is one of the reasons Bruce Lee wanted to create a style that reflected how real streetfights generally go down. Because he knew real streetghters and even some martial artist weren't going to fight the way they do at the dojo/dojan.

[Neil]

No, no you misunderstood. When I said big stances I am mainly tlaking of some of the Shotokan teachers out there who are making up to 5ft front stances when they should only be about 3ft asa seen in Funokoshi's books. When I talk of strengh I mean this idea of relaxing and then tensing at the last moment which is what people think is Kime. Kime is simply using enough control to stop the muscle like the arm or leg from locking out. You use kime when you change kime. I did not write it very specifically. Stances whould be pushing into the ground as much as possible, don't get me wrong there this is also a problem, lazyness where people cannot be bothered to push into the ground enough. The more you push your stance into the ground the more energy you get back.

 

When you jump, you get a much higher jump from a squat position than from standing locked out. When you push into the ground you are pushing down with more gravity, which in turn, equals the energy pushing up. But instead of going up you push all the energy over the front leg and direct it forwards. When I say too big stances I mean unnatural stances that actually provide no power and are immobile. They seem to think bigger is better. Thats why in todays karate you see all these great big head kicks and all these flowery movements which have been flashed up a bit.

 

On the question on current stae of affairs, are simply delt with, with masters going up and down the country providing courses and showing people how inneffective there teaching is. My teachers teacher was once having dinner with him with some other karate exponents from all over the country in the Isle of Wight, and Mike Lambert (my teachers teacher) said 'You know what? There is no such thing as s*it karate, theres only s*it out there teaching it.

 

A man called Steve Morris has done many courses and people have admitted learning more from him in the first 30 minutes than they had done in the past 30 years they had trained and taught.

 

And when my teacher passes away I will also contribute my part in this, almost, war against people teaching a very bad version of what they call karate.

[G95champ]

Kata is the base of karate no question. However its loaded with application from the very basic to the wild and crazy. Yes there is a set of applications taught traditionally for any kata but any good karate teacher will tell you that you got to apply the kata to yourslef and through personal developement see applications for yourself that are not there.

 

EX 10 things to do with a down block

 

1. Block a punch

 

2. Block a kick

 

3. Hammer strike to the stomach or groin

 

4. Back knuckle strike to the groin

 

5. Pushing a perosn hand off your shoulder

 

6. Escaping from a wrist grab

 

7. Pulling a person over you back as in a throw

 

8. Pulling a person arround you side as in a hip toss

 

9. Pushing something out of the way such as a chair

 

10. Taking a defensive stance.

 

ETC ETC ETC

 

Thats just what came to me qucikly and I show all those applications everytime I teach a kata for the first time.

 

Your question was whats wrong with modren karate. The answer is not the techinques or the applications or the method of training. The BIG problem with modren karate is the LACK of QUALITY Teachers. You got people in just for the money who sell rank and you got others who don't know anything but are great tumblers and acrobats. TKD, Karate, BJJ, Kung Fu, MT, blah blah blah it don't matter if you learn from someone who is a good teacher you will learn Self Defense and become a good karate studnet....

[KaratekaAikidoist]

I partially agree. Kata application can become outdated as well. For instance, one of my kata's has an attack meant to break through bamboo armor. Well, I don't know too many people that wear bamboo armor. And with kumite, most attackers aren't going to attack with an inside out cresent kick or a reverse roundhouse.

 

 

 

Ciao

[G95champ]

Whats the differance in bamboo armor and a leather coat????

 

Whats the differance in a inside cresent kick and a baseball bat??? Same motion same leval...

 

Just use your mind and see what your missing.

[Neil]

G95champ, I do agree with you that there is a huge shortage of teachers out there but again I can see that you don't fully understand applications. Yes some of your applications are applicable but things like blocking a kick or punch is simply crap.

 

There is no such thing as a block in Karate. There never was. When people teach applications from katas as blocks it just shows how much they know about karate. A perfect example to back this up is what my teacher told me.

 

Take 2 rottweilers and 2 alsations to a park. Get a big juicy steak and throw it between them. Watch how many times they block. Count the amount of times the rottweiler goes Gedan Barai, or the alsation does a rising block. There is no such thing as a block in karate, blocks are seen in kumite which would be better descibed as two man kata, becasue that is what they are. They were and are used as conditioning drills for the movements in the kata. They are not APPLICATIONS to a real fight. Anyone that has been in a real fight will know that there is simply no time to block.

 

Neil