Was he really that good???

[Prodigal Son]

and please don't use what you see in films as proof of ability. they are carefully choreograhed set pieces that you and i could learn and reproduce and with a little editing recreate EXACTLY.

 

Hope I'm not getting too off topic, but with all due respect, are you telling me that someone could learn to do a single choreographed WC fight 'EXACTLY' in one day - let alone 3 forms - to a level that could convince a real practitioner ?

 

A friend of mine, whom I had not seen for a while, came to visit me, and told me that he had been training with a well known "Sijo" (apparently) in London for about a year. His 1st form was riddled with obvious mistakes, but according to your argument it should at least 'look' right if he had been copying his teacher. Wing Chun is simply too detailed to be choreographed convincingly for those who are not already practitioners.

 

Compare Keanu's kung fu in the Matrix (obviously rubbish) with that in Reloaded (getting better). And before anyone gets upset, I'm not saying it's 'real' - I'm talking about the grace and naturalness in his movement. Different class of Kung fu, but same teacher, same level of editing and choreography. It takes time, practice and ability to look good.

 

And as for judging level of ability from film, I never touched hands with Mr Lee (or Mr Li yet), so film is all I have to go on for both of them - but Jet Li's WC looks pretty tight to me.

 

Respect to you all,

 

>>>PS<<<

 

P.S. Part of my work involves editing and shooting video. If you can EXACTLY reproduce Jet Li's quality of movement, let's get together and make a Kung Fu flick (and a whole lot of money).

[sansoouser]

http://www.sageartsunlimited.com/articles/MA_Jul1980_Bruce_ToughestFight.html

 

thats a link to fight Bruce Lee had with another master, Bruce views it one way the other guy views it his, Bruce claims to have had the guy on the ground wailing on him while the other guy says it was a tie and that Bruce Lee was fighting dirty not by the rules, his wife views the same was as him but other people there didn't.... you decide..

[Prodigal Son]

Great article !

 

>>>PS<<<

[CWilder]

In terms of fighting talent, no, he probably was not as great as some make him out to be.

 

What was really amazing about Bruce Lee however was the fact that he developed a new martial arts system, something that had not been done in hundreds of years with any real success, and it was one that derived pieces from over twenty other forms. While some people argue JKD may not be the best thing out there, one can make a good argument that it is amongst the most versatile fighting systems out there today.

 

~ C

[walden]

According to some story:

 

"Trovador Ramos actually defeated Bruce Lee, well the story was...Bruce wanted to have a duel with Trovador, and he agreed.In one condition.., Bruce Lee has to defeat Trovador's senior deciple. But then Bruce Lee failed to defeat Trovador's deciple so the duel between the Trovador and Bruce Lee didn't happen.There were pictures and newsclips of the two masters, when Bruce Lee was having few lessons from Trovador."

[Ravencroft]

Oh my god. of course everyones gonna say they beat bruce lee come on. if i even hung with him at all id prolly give my self a better review that i deserve because he was amazing. he always trainied with other masters thats what made him so good. and bruce lee brought so much light to ed parkers school he taught them more than they taught him. there is no best fighter there is always someone better its just that no one really ever knew who was better than bruce. and it was by no means his fighting that made him the greatest ever. YES HE WAS THE BEST AND I AM STICKING TO THAT. who did more for MA than him? he was a guru before the age of 30. he trained so hard and studied under so many people and made martial arts more famous than ed parker could in a million years. he developed the styleless martial art that is arguably the best ever. but by far the greatest part about bruce lee was when he was half paralyzed. as much of a martial artist he was philosopher. he taught how to apply MA to life. he didnt teach people he helped them help them selves. what worked for them to be better than they ever could. hes tthe one who brought up the fact that MA isnt just about kicking someones * its aalso about bettering urself. he demonstrated that thru film. everyone has their favorite but bruce lee was truly the best. we will probably never see anyone like him ever again he was one of a kind and if u cantt see that im sorry for you. anywho this is just my little rant take it as you will i dont wanna insult anyone just sticking up for the man because in some way or another we were all influenced by bruce. hes the jimi hendrix of MA.

[Ravencroft]

Hey! im an orange belt!

[White Warlock]

hehe, congrats on the orange there Ravencroft.

 

I understood what you meant with your post Raven, but i'm going to pose it in a manner that may be better understood by a larger percentage of readers:

 

Muhammed Ali was the greatest boxer of all time. He may not have been the best, but he was the greatest. Greatest because he brought the entire world to start paying attention to boxing, and it was because of him that boxing became a multi-million dollar business.

 

Bruce Lee was the greatest martial artist of all time. He may not have been the best, but he was the greatest. Greatest because he brought the entire world to start paying attention to martial arts, and it was because of him that the martial arts are now openly mixed, and it was because of him that Hollywood made martial art movies a multi-million dollar business.

 

Disclaimer: These statements may not necessarily be entirely valid, but the gist of the message is what i'm aiming for here... not the statistical accuracy.

[Ravencroft]

WW, well put. i agree with you i just dont want people going around talking about how he got beat by all these people thats on pure speculation. saying how hed always try out moves on ed parker and get whooped or whatever thats such a big load of * its sick. ive never heard anything of bruce lee ever losing a fight...besides the one that inspired him to learn wing chun. you are right though he couldnt have been the best because there is always smeone better in some way. i just dont think we knew anyone better. one more thing u have to remember is that although bruce lee knew what he was talking about he was kinda cocky. he went around telling people what they were doing wrong and speaking of the supiororities in his style, essentially defying many traditional aspects of MA. now honestly what would you people think about all this. you know you would feel at least some sort of animosity/jealousy whatever it may be. this naturally would make some people want to hurt his reputation or constantly try to prove there was someone better. and any reviews by ed parkers students u know will be at least a little biased against bruce.

[Shorin Ryuu]

My opinion, Bruce Lee wasn't all that great. He was in excellent physical shape, but the more I learn about martial arts the less impressed I am by him.

 

For a real critical opinion, read Robert Smith's section on him in his book Martial Musings...Smith really tears him apart.

 

At any rate, most of the JKD concepts he presented are really traditional martial arts concepts anyway...