Wing Chun History

[pvwingchun]

Since there seems to be a group in here that may like to debate the history have at it.

 

Explain what you believe and why. Any references or dcumentation you can cite to back up your claims would be a big plus.

 

Even within the various lineages there is debate, was it a fox and a crane or a snake and a crane.

 

I will start us out by saying that:

 

Wing Chun history is clouded in mystery and legend. I believe that the truth is in the legends, although I believe it to be wrapped up in between and is probably a mixture of more than one legend.

 

Did Ng Mui exist and was she actually a Ming Princess sent to the temple for protection?

 

What role did Jee Shim play?

 

Was Yim Wing Chun a historical figure and was the name changed to protect the innocent either purposely or accidently?

 

What role did the opera boats play?

 

Did the Southern Temple actually exist?

 

Was Wing Chun actually developed in the village of Yong Chun (Mandarin for Wing Chun)?

 

Did Leung Jan recieve more than one system of Wing Chun?

 

I could go on but this should get you all started.

[pvwingchun]

from the ground up

 

I am trying to get all history into this thread that is why I anwered here.

 

You ask in another thread, "When were there nuns in the temple?"

 

My research says they have been there, I am trying to for a more definitive answer from someone who actually studies the history of the temple but with summer here it is hard to find people and my resources are limited, I may venture into the library at ASU later today to do a little research if I get chance while I am in Phoenix today. But a cursory internet search suggests that women have been present in temple. There is enough info out there to suggest this to be true.

[Drunken Monkey]

yes, but how many instances of a nun holding a high position, or even one with such martial experience, at the temple are there?

[pvwingchun]

Actually I am in the process of researching this exact question at this time. To this point cursory information says it was common for women to hold high positions. The Abbess was the head of the "female order." At this time what I have read suggests that the temples were "basically like a university" a place for higher learning, they weren't just for buddhist monks. The more, what we may call liberal arts, were also taught to balance the martial teachings. Keeping inline with the balance of the yin yang theories and buddhist philosophy.

 

When I know more I will report it. If anyone can shed some light on the subject it would be appreciated.

[wcnavstar]

For several outlooks on the creation of the Wing Chun style, look up and read "Complete Wing Chun: The Definitive Guide to Wing Chun's History and Traditions" (Tuttle Martial Arts) by Robert Chu, Rene Ritchie, Y. Wu

 

...try Amazon. The book is basicly a bringing together of most of the well known WC lieages, and presents a non biased report on each WC system including the prespective histories of the WC style. You will be able to see how different the accounts are, as well as the similarities. I highly recommend this book for anyone researching WC Histories. Also includes a fairly extensive Wing Chun family tree.

 

Very Respectfully wcnavstar

[Drunken Monkey]

it just seems too convienient that one of the very few survivors of the burning just happens to be a woman with lots of martial training.

 

it all just reeks of old chinese story telling...

[pvwingchun]

Is it possible that more than 5 survived but they get the recognition because of their contributions to martial arts????????????

 

We will never know. But the truth is wrapped up in the legends somewhere.

 

The Native Americans had an oral history does anyone doubt that? As did many other cultures, is it any less accurate than the written word? What we or anyone writes is clouded by their own biases as well as what we say.

 

We must honor our ancestors by remembering and repeating what they said but we must also seek out the truth. But we should be skeptical of groups that claim to have researched and are reporting the history now. Is it any more or less accurate than the oral history we have been given.

 

I would like to hear from more of you.

[Drunken Monkey]

but isn't it also a bit coincidental that these supposed five survivors go on to create nearly all martial arts in southern china?

[pvwingchun]

That is obviously legend but can we discount there contributions with no proof?

 

How do people out htere feel about the legend that the monks watched animals for fighting ideas? Which brings up the question was it a fox or a snake and a crane?

 

No one has yet answered or brought up any more questions for debate.

 

So here goes another.

 

Was Wing Chun developed because of the tight alley ways in the cities of the time where a close range style is necessay or did it develop after it got on the opera boats, which we believe played a role in the developement? Was maybe one the primary reason and the other secondary and only incidental? Is it possible that the monks foresaw the success of the opera boats as a place to develop WC or was it developed to use in the cities and the opera boat developemnt incidental and additional since the style already had been developed and worked so well on tight quarters?

 

Did WC evolve in the secret societies and as the secret societies moved onto the opera boats to hide so did WC?

[pvwingchun]

from the ground up can you elaborate more on this statement

magical apperances from the gods themselves to hand down a pair of knives and knife set...

 

I have never heard of this legend. According to the various histories I have read many credit Leung Bok Chau with bringing the knives to system.