Has karate lost somthing?

[Guest]

gordosan wrote:

you mentioned many qualities which are gained in various ways,not necessarily through karate, if karate teaches u this things(i dont see how can it teach u to love and be loved...) only after 10 years of practice, I have got shorter lessons in life which taught me the above.

 

I also learned that some things u learn , u first obey your teacher and only later u understand why u did it(1+1=2, ABC...), so I'll be patient

 

Martial_Girl wrote:

Well, I did it to show you it in many different ways. Right, just be patient.

 

Yes, just be patient and keep paying those dues ...

[a_modern_production]

i read the very first post and skipped to the end... so i dunno what anyone else has said but here is my short and simple opinion...

 

if anything now a days karate has lost its defense purposes... everyone wants to talk about spiritual enlightenment and making great sportsmen... i think people are afraid to be recognised as a fighter when they can make themselves seem more noble and be recognised as a spiritualist.

[AndrewGreen]

if anything now a days karate has lost its defense purposes...

 

Are you really sure that is what karate was supposed to be about?

 

The training methods and techniques do not support that theory well.

everyone wants to talk about spiritual enlightenment and making great sportsmen...

 

Sportsmanship is developed in sports. If you make karate into a sport it changes it's nature. Instead of instructors you need coaches. Belts would be based on competitive ability and kata thrown out the window amongst other things.

i think people are afraid to be recognised as a fighter when they can make themselves seem more noble and be recognised as a spiritualist.

 

It's easier and can't be shown to be untrue. Afterall, they have the certificate.

[A_mind_like_water]

It takes two zen masters. One to change the bulb, and one not to change it.

 

Okay, only funny if you are into zen proverbs.

 

.......I don't get it

[mArTiAl_GiRl]

In the West, a person seeking martial-arts instruction often goes after it like a shopper in a shopping mall.

 

In the West one is likely to enter the school of martial arts with the same attitudes and some of the same expectations with which one enters a department store, sometimes with a credit card in hand. One may bargain with the clerk, pay the money, learn the routines, take the merchandise, and leave the store. That's all there is to learning martial arts, the merchandisers appear to say.

 

Training in the martial arts as one finds it in this 'mall' approach is often

 

a purely mechanical process with no true human contact between the seller and the buyer, merely one more transaction in a day's busy schedule for both.

 

In terms of the essence of martial arts study, however, it is not that simple at all.

 

In fact, the relationship between students and teacher in the Eastern tradition is quite complex and extraordinary because the true teacher doesn't sell knowledge and the true student cannot buy it.

 

Today martial art training too often pays homage only to the outer aspect to attract more customers who might please themselves in the transient satisfactions and limelight of personal power.

 

Authentic study of martial arts involves intense study of the art of living

 

and is dramatically different from business transactions.

 

People have strayed far from the true martial arts when students and teachers, having launched the transaction as a business venture,

 

demonstrate concern only about appearance, showing-off with spectacular combat techniques designed merely to impress others,

 

while neglecting the cultivation of mindfulness, compassion and love.

 

This crass attitude makes old martial-arts masters complain that nowadays people are merely infatuated with martial arts and train

 

to compete only in order to gain a prize or win a colored belt or title.

 

It seems they have lost the original meaning, the serious purpose,

 

and vitality of the martial arts. The art remains art in name only.

 

So, yes we can say, that something is lost in karate and in martial arts nowadays.

[karate_woman]

I too long for - and strive to achieve - quality in martial arts. However, while I'm not fond of the McDojo phenomenon, we must be careful when longing too much for the old way of martial arts - the old way that few to none of us experienced. Why? It seems to me that before martial arts were introduced to the public in the east, they were taught privately to a very exclusive group of people. Even after they were introduced to a wider group of people many were still rather exclusive, with lots of hopeful students getting turned away by the masters. While teachers can still turn students away that they feel would misuse the knowledge, I speculate that many train today that wouldn't have been given the opportunity back in the "good old days", including many of us that throw up our hands in despair at the state of things.

 

I've read about the training that Chojun Miyagi's students endured; from 3pm to 8pm every day, with lectures extending hours afterwards. He himself reportedly started training at 5am for a few hours before work as well. I strongly suspect that as much as I love Goju, even at my highest commitment level of 15-16 hours per week including some teaching hours, I'd not be up to his standards. Perhaps I'm too hard on myself but I don't think so. Therefore, even though I'm not likely up to the old standards (how could I be without that amount of training), I'm grateful for the opportunities I've had to learn thus far, and I feel I've gained from this training I'm getting. In the "good old days", I quite possibly wouldn't have even been exposed to karate, and if I had, the odds of my being accepted as a student are slim-to-none.

[mArTiAl_GiRl]

Yes, I have heard of that too, that the old masters taught only a few students privately and those who wanted to study that art, didn't have an oppurtunity. I agree with your opinion, karate woman. And today is much better to study the martial arts, because you have the oppurtunity to study it, of course, if you want to use the martal art in the good way.

[Kirves]

Here's a good article about what the training was like when the people from the west were only beginning to learn karate on Okinawa, i.e. when the training was still done the way it always was: http://www.joelewiskarate.com/joe-lewis/article5.asp

[fireka]

Martial Girl that was excellent and insightful. i agree completely.

[mArTiAl_GiRl]

Happy to hear..