mArTiAl_GiRl Posted June 4, 2003 Posted June 4, 2003 you mentioned many qualities which are gained in various ways,not necessarily through karate, if karate teaches u this things(i dont see how can it teach u to love and be loved...) only after 10 years of practice, I have got shorter lessons in life which taught me the above. I also learned that some things u learn , u first obey your teacher and only later u understand why u did it(1+1=2, ABC...), so I'll be patient Well, I did it to show you it in many different ways. Right, just be patient. Kill is love
Kirves Posted June 4, 2003 Posted June 4, 2003 you are supposed to try and make yourself a "better person" everyday for the rest of your life. You should try to avoid hurting others and solving issues with violenceI agree with every word, but why do I need karate for doing this You don't. Karate (or budo in general) is just one of the vehicles by which one can learn zen. Basically, anything involving long term commitment to hardship, taking responsibility of one's own life plus those of others (in karate you do this by performing deadly techniques on your fellow people and they must trust you and you must trust them to not hurt each other), plus several other similar traits, can be a vehicle of zen. Karate happens to be one we like. You could just go to a buddhist temple too, but they take a differing road to the same goal. Basically, you want to go to the top of the mountain to enjoy the magnificent view. Most people are accustomed to try to find the shortest or fastest route, wether it is the highway or the mountain train. What zen tries to teach is to take the long route and just start going. Learn and enjoy the trip instead of just focusing on the goal and searching for the fastest way. When you focus on the journey, even though you know it is not the easiest possible, you will learn more about yourself, your travel companions, the country side around you, the climate and the mountain itself. When you finally reach the top, you are much wiser and more knowledgeable person than when you began. And when you look down to see the view, and the mountainside, you notice the people who were searching for the fast track are still down there, searching for they'll never find it. If they find a faster track, they won't take it because they'll figure there's one even faster around the bend. They never reach the goal, nor will they enjoy the search either. If you think of the mountain as a metaphor for your life and the world you have around you, you may understand my point.
superleeds Posted June 4, 2003 Posted June 4, 2003 This is one of the better threads that I have read on this forum. For me, Karate is what I put into it, a martial arts system that reflects who I am as a person. I also think that here are two levels of Karate. at the first level u build yourself around the system and let it "form/influence you as a karateka. as you progress to the next level u form the karate around you. I find Karate spiritual in the sence that it gives me a break from the everyday stress. Sorry guys I'm just rambling. Read a book!
A_mind_like_water Posted June 5, 2003 Posted June 5, 2003 you are supposed to try and make yourself a "better person" everyday for the rest of your life. You should try to avoid hurting others and solving issues with violenceI agree with every word, but why do I need karate for doing this You don't. Karate (or budo in general) is just one of the vehicles by which one can learn zen. Basically, anything involving long term commitment to hardship, taking responsibility of one's own life plus those of others (in karate you do this by performing deadly techniques on your fellow people and they must trust you and you must trust them to not hurt each other), plus several other similar traits, can be a vehicle of zen. Karate happens to be one we like. You could just go to a buddhist temple too, but they take a differing road to the same goal. Basically, you want to go to the top of the mountain to enjoy the magnificent view. Most people are accustomed to try to find the shortest or fastest route, wether it is the highway or the mountain train. What zen tries to teach is to take the long route and just start going. Learn and enjoy the trip instead of just focusing on the goal and searching for the fastest way. When you focus on the journey, even though you know it is not the easiest possible, you will learn more about yourself, your travel companions, the country side around you, the climate and the mountain itself. When you finally reach the top, you are much wiser and more knowledgeable person than when you began. And when you look down to see the view, and the mountainside, you notice the people who were searching for the fast track are still down there, searching for they'll never find it. If they find a faster track, they won't take it because they'll figure there's one even faster around the bend. They never reach the goal, nor will they enjoy the search either. If you think of the mountain as a metaphor for your life and the world you have around you, you may understand my point. .........deep that was AMAZING were the hell did you hear/learn that!? Danuall san- "Up you'res OLD man, wax your own DAM cars, im goin out ta get LAID" -Scott https://www.worldkarate.net
Kirves Posted June 6, 2003 Posted June 6, 2003 that was AMAZING were the hell did you hear/learn that!? After reading too many books on zen, I can nowadays only speak using metaphors! PS. How many zen masters does it take to change a lightbulb?
A_mind_like_water Posted June 6, 2003 Posted June 6, 2003 I duno, how many zen masters does it take to change a light bulb? hey, can you recomend any good zen books? (something that i would beable to find in a libary or sumthin) Danuall san- "Up you'res OLD man, wax your own DAM cars, im goin out ta get LAID" -Scott https://www.worldkarate.net
mArTiAl_GiRl Posted June 6, 2003 Posted June 6, 2003 you are supposed to try and make yourself a "better person" everyday for the rest of your life. You should try to avoid hurting others and solving issues with violenceI agree with every word, but why do I need karate for doing this You don't. Karate (or budo in general) is just one of the vehicles by which one can learn zen. Basically, anything involving long term commitment to hardship, taking responsibility of one's own life plus those of others (in karate you do this by performing deadly techniques on your fellow people and they must trust you and you must trust them to not hurt each other), plus several other similar traits, can be a vehicle of zen. Karate happens to be one we like. You could just go to a buddhist temple too, but they take a differing road to the same goal. Basically, you want to go to the top of the mountain to enjoy the magnificent view. Most people are accustomed to try to find the shortest or fastest route, wether it is the highway or the mountain train. What zen tries to teach is to take the long route and just start going. Learn and enjoy the trip instead of just focusing on the goal and searching for the fastest way. When you focus on the journey, even though you know it is not the easiest possible, you will learn more about yourself, your travel companions, the country side around you, the climate and the mountain itself. When you finally reach the top, you are much wiser and more knowledgeable person than when you began. And when you look down to see the view, and the mountainside, you notice the people who were searching for the fast track are still down there, searching for they'll never find it. If they find a faster track, they won't take it because they'll figure there's one even faster around the bend. They never reach the goal, nor will they enjoy the search either. If you think of the mountain as a metaphor for your life and the world you have around you, you may understand my point. Yes, that is wise! That is what I tried to explain. I read some martial arts books too, I'm reading my favourite right now: "Beyond the known", anyone knows about that book? Well, if not, then I recommend you should read that! And of course, Zen is a wise thing too. Kill is love
Rich_2k3 Posted June 6, 2003 Author Posted June 6, 2003 I'm mean, nowadays in martial arts (i dont just mean karate) martial artists seem to have no discepline or honour, some do but most just learn how to defend themselves and maybe compete in a few tournments. It saddens me to this, when you compare it to hundreds of years ago when the samari were around, everything was about self enlightenment and honour, the traditions seems to have gone. I suppose its just because of the world we live in, people are different now.... "When my enemy contracts I expand and when he expands I contract" - Bruce Lee
mArTiAl_GiRl Posted June 6, 2003 Posted June 6, 2003 I'm mean, nowadays in martial arts (i dont just mean karate) martial artists seem to have no discepline or honour, some do but most just learn how to defend themselves and maybe compete in a few tournments. It saddens me to this, when you compare it to hundreds of years ago when the samari were around, everything was about self enlightenment and honour, the traditions seems to have gone. I suppose its just because of the world we live in, people are different now.... You're right! And I have noticed that too, it really is sad. I am that kind of person, who tries to remain honour and such, so that has made me sad too, that people have lost that. I compete pretty often too, but that's only because I want to improve my karate and see how much I have learnt.. not for winning something. Kill is love
Kirves Posted June 6, 2003 Posted June 6, 2003 It takes two zen masters. One to change the bulb, and one not to change it. Okay, only funny if you are into zen proverbs.
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