Black Belt at 8 ???

[hobbitbob]

I am not afraid to research the origins and history of my style. I am also not afraid of admitting weak points in arts I have practiced. I hold Dan rankings in Wado Ryu Karate Do (JKF Wado Kai), Shotokan (ISKF), and Tae Kwon Do (WTF). I think that when systems begin to promote children to Dan rank they lose most of their credibility. The Korean styles are notorious for this practice. If you have read other posts I have made on similar subjects, you will find that I am not in favour of even teaching Karate (as a generic term) to children under the age of ten. I don't believe that children have the ability to comprehend the material. I have met fifty year olds who have the same disability! Whether you like it or not, karate is a weapon. Do you favour allowing children to have access to weapons? Watering this down to the level seen in the sort of schools that sport paediatric Yudansha is ludicrous. Does anyone think that this youngster can effectively defend himself from an adult attacker? Does anyone think he understands the finer points of Karate technique (which,as a new Shodan, he should be able to (just barely) begin to comprehend)?

 

The question also remains, what does his belt ranking mean? Is it a merely a reward for being able to reproduce technique? In the schools where I have trained, Shodan represents a beginning point. As a new Shodan, you are finally considered a serious student. Before Shodan, you are a guest in the Dojo. As a new Shodan you have finally proven yourself worthy of serious teaching. Everything before was a preparatory exercise for finally being able to really learn Karate. Is an eight year old boy capable of this? Can an eight year old make this conceptual leap? I doubt it. There are youngsters with the maturity to comprehend the intricacies of karate technique. Monkeygirl, who happens to be a moderator of this forum has by her thoughtful dialogue indicated that she is likely among this minority. I do seriously doubt, however, that she was capable of this level of comprehension at eight. Compounding this dilemma is the fact that I recall being an eight year old boy (not that terribly long ago, 1975, in fact!) and giving me a black belt in a martial art would have been the height of farce. I held a green belt in Judo at the time that I cringe to remember.

 

In twenty-two years of training I have encountered two Korean stylists who taught good, solid technique. Neither of them will promote children under sixteen to Dan level. I have met many (of pretty much all styles) who teach bad technique, yet have a stable of paediatric Yudansha. The comments regarding the Korean arts have been in response to comments you made, Mr. marker. Do the research before you react emotionally. I am sure that you are a knowledgeable practitioner of Tang Soo Do,and that you demonstrate adequate TSD technique.

[tommarker]

I believe I asked (and if I recall, I did not ask YOU) if TKD couldn't be a budo art. You took this as your chance to jump on a soapbox and make your pedantic rant about the ineffieciency of Korean arts.

However, none of these schools diplay a level of technique that can be considered anything but marginal, even when the observer is being generous! In addition, Korean stylits routinely display ignorance of such basic concepts as hip rotation, Hikite/Shomente relationships, body mechanics in motion, etc...

 

In addition, Korean stylists generally display a stunning lack of knowledge when confronted with questions regarding intereperetation of Kata. Most Korean stylists, unless exposed to Japanese or Okinawan arts, will happily stick with block/punch/kick intereperetations of technique.

 

then ...

In twenty-two years of training I have encountered two Korean stylists who taught good, solid technique.

 

So which is it? First everyone is mediocre, and now you can think of two (that's awful generous of you) with "good" technique. I can think of several mediocre shotokan schools that I'm fairly certain you wouldn't want the reputation of YOUR art to hang on. Maybe you should refrain from speaking in such large sweeping statements!

 

Maybe you know a lot about Shotokan, but you know about as much about Tang Soo Do (or TKD for that matter) as someone who has walked by a strip mall dojang. You sound like - at best - a 6th kyu who just learned that his art is the best.. I'd expect somewhat better from someone who has trained 22 years and is espousing the ways of budo in a public forum.

[hobbitbob]

Personal attacks usually indicate the writer has exhausted their ability to reason, as you have demonstradted above.

 

I can think of twenty or so mediocre to bad Shotokan schools I have encountered, five or so Wado schools in the same category, and one Shito Ryu school that also falls into the above.

 

It is because of the shortcomings evident in japanese Karate that I am now practicing Seibukan Shorin Ryu. The school I now go to does not practice tournament technique in any way,shape, or form. Nor do we march up and down the floor throwing punches into the air. Instead we do a Kata, many partner drills, and tons'o'Bunkai!

 

Young man, my comments were anything but a pedantic rant. As I said before, I would suggest you engage in some research, rather than reacting emotionally. I'm sorry if you feel your toes were stepped upon, but use this as a learning experience!

 

Let me elaborate on the two TKD stylists I have met who display good technique. One of them (the person I trained under from August of 1999-December of 2002) also trained in Southern Chinese Kung Fu, and his father's Vietnamese family style Kung Fu. He is 68 years old,and earned his TKD black belt in 1962. He is currently a Kukiwon 7th Dan. he will also be the first one to tell you that the majority of TKD practitioners are "for nothing ." He uses the TKD framework to teach a martial art.

 

The other TKD practitioner I have met who is an excellent technician teaches in a small Dojo in Renton, WA. He also holds Dan ranking in Goju, and Aikido. His TKD has a very Okinawan look to it.

 

If you have further comments of a personal nature, please email me privately. My email address is on my profile.

[Kirves]

I believe there's a good reason why children can't get driving licences or buy guns. They aren't mature enough, and that's a psychological fact. If we assume that this kid is a genuine black belt (and not a McDojo victim) then he has been given a lethal weapon to carry around when he's not mature enough to have that responsibility. There's a reason for children usually being awarded junior ranks instead of real black belts, you know. Now that he's a black belt, should he be allowed to start his own school? Found his own style even? Would you let your child be taught martial arts by this 8 year old? Would you want to be taught self defence and martial skills by a small child? Just some things to consider.

[A_mind_like_water]

Mmmm. you think his dad is the sensi