KaratekaAikidoist Posted May 25, 2003 Posted May 25, 2003 I just came here after getting karate bashed by my aunt and grandpa. The say that MA are useless because "of a little invention called the gun". I said that the person would have to get the gun out in time and they said "Thats why there's so little Kung Fu guys because karate can't help you dodge bullets" Well, Karate and Kung Fu are different, so they showed their own stupidity. Anybody have comments, stories,"solutions"?
hobbitbob Posted May 25, 2003 Posted May 25, 2003 (edited) You will never change people's opinions. My brother in law, who is somewhere to the right of Mussolini (on a good day!), loves to tell stories about big rednecks he knew in the Air Force who beat up koreans during his time there. I have, over the past twenty years or so, learned to ignore him. There is a saying about opinions and excretory orifices.... Edited May 26, 2003 by hobbitbob There have always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort Farm!
WhiteBelt Posted May 26, 2003 Posted May 26, 2003 Ignore them, or be happy with the fact that your average person could barely hit the broad side of a barn from 10m with a handgun. EDIT: My uncle was in the infantry and always told me how useless MA are because people in the army learned to fight too, but much more dirty. "They would bite your ear off", he said, which sounds familiar to some people here...
hobbitbob Posted May 26, 2003 Posted May 26, 2003 EDIT: My uncle was in the infantry and always told me how useless MA are because people in the army learned to fight too, but much more dirty. "They would bite your ear off", he said, which sounds familiar to some people here...Army "hand-to-hand" training is a joke! We learned how to do boxing style punches, and hip throws. I partnered up with a Hapkidoka, and was having great fun until one of the drill sergeants saw us, and PT'ed us for not following instruction. The Bayonet training was interesting. The Pugil sticks are supposed to be training for bayonet fighting (pugil sticks are the infamous "Q-Tips" seen in many basic training movies),and were conducive to Bo technique. I had three years of Naginata-Do prior to the Army,and used similar technique in the Pugil stick ring, confusing many by yelling "Men, Men, Do, Men, Kote,...etc..." as I struck! For a soldier to be fighting with bayonet, or hand-to-had implies that he is close to dead. One only resorts to such things when all of one's ammo is gone. As for the "deadly" army fighters, On a slow weekend night in the ED at Madigan Army Medical Centre we would see an average of ten Rangers from the 2/ 75th Ranger Regiment who ahd been beaten up in fights in off-post clubs. So much for the "trained killer" image that they liked to push. Often they were beaten up by strippers, but that is another story.... There have always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort Farm!
Pacificshore Posted May 26, 2003 Posted May 26, 2003 Not everyone is as knowledgeable as they would like to think Di'DaDeeeee!!!Mind of Mencia
Shorin Ryuu Posted May 26, 2003 Posted May 26, 2003 They DO have to realize that unless their guns are already drawn and ready to fire, then if they are facing off with you and they pull a gun, then it will take them longer to shoot it than for you to apply a self defense technique. Pulling a gun out and shooting isn't quite as fast as everyone seems to think... If they say "Hey, what if they are 20 feet away and they have a gun pointed at you?" In that case, then even if you had a gun too, you wouldn't be able to pull it out before they shot you... In fact, policemen often have specially designed holsters to reduce the main drawback of guns: You have to take it from your hip or chest and aim it which takes time. To reduce the aim takes training. To reduce the draw-time takes design (that and quicker hands I guess). I remember reading in American Hangunner (I will really try to find the statistic) that they did a study on how quick it takes to draw a gun and in many situations, an attacker with a knife would be able to close in quicker...When I find that number and source I'll put it in here...until then, I can't back it up with solid evidence... Martial Arts Blog:http://bujutsublogger.blogspot.com/
gordosan Posted May 26, 2003 Posted May 26, 2003 I wonder why r u giving so much importance to gun attack, it is such a rare situation ! If u r smart enough ,u can avoid of getting to places with high risk ,or at least avoid the dangerous hours. If you are the 1 in a million that faced a gun threat after all, you just give the guy what he wants and in 99% of the cases he will leave you alone. it is more effective to waist the critical seconds on thinking how to calm down the guy than how to disarm him. to karatekaikidoist aunt and grandpa: karate gives you so much more than self defense !
SaiFightsMS Posted May 26, 2003 Posted May 26, 2003 Karate is one of the great mysteries of life that those who appreciate it understand. And those who do not appreciate it are doomed to remain out in left field. Best to just leave them in thier blissful ignorance.
Shorin Ryuu Posted May 26, 2003 Posted May 26, 2003 I wonder why r u giving so much importance to gun attack, it is such a rare situation ! If u r smart enough ,u can avoid of getting to places with high risk ,or at least avoid the dangerous hours. If you are the 1 in a million that faced a gun threat after all, you just give the guy what he wants and in 99% of the cases he will leave you alone. it is more effective to waist the critical seconds on thinking how to calm down the guy than how to disarm him. to karatekaikidoist aunt and grandpa: karate gives you so much more than self defense ! I'm not sure if the above comment was addressed to me, but I was just trying to defuse the anti-karate people's argument using their own logic against them. And I do agree with you that it is probably a rare case in most places, although quite frequent in others. I would like to add that if he was within reasonable distance I would try to disarm him...why else am I studying martial arts then to defend myself? For me, at any rate, that is the primary reason. And with SaiFightMS I also agree. "Unfortunately, no one can be told what karate is...You have to see it for yourself." That is why I like the term "karateka". In Japan, a "fill in the blank"-ka means someone that doesn't partake in an activity but watches or studies it closely. a "fill in the blank"-sha is someone who does it. Thus a person who watches baseball is a yakyuuka (although nowadays they'd just call them athletic supporters in engrish) while a person who plays it is a yakyuusha. Yet due to the distinct nature of karate, a karateka refers to someone who practices it and studies it, not just an observer. I like that subtle difference...You might be able to gain an appreciation for it or maybe some respect, but its not the same unless you do it yourself. Martial Arts Blog:http://bujutsublogger.blogspot.com/
gordosan Posted May 26, 2003 Posted May 26, 2003 Shorin Ryuu : I respect your reason for choosing karate, each karateka has its own reason, for me the self defense is only a benefit, not a reason... It is something extra that I gain while practicing other more important things . I have to admit that I don't see much chance to be threaten by a gun in my surrounding (more likely to be hit by a car or terrorist suicide attack) If it was different I might put self defense in higher priority. about 15 years ago I lived in Sao Paulo in Brazil, and a gun was aimed towards me in a very short distance which a well trained karateka might have the chance to handle ,at the time I was familiar to karate only from movies, I stopped immediately the argument we had, left him with what he wanted and went way. I would have done the same even if I was 5 dan ! what have I lost? my pride? depends on your point of view (I am proud to be smart). what could I lose? probably my life... now , you might have tried to disarm the guy, if u succeeded , u earned your pride (again, depends on someone point of view). if you didn't , and hit the gun and a bullet hit a passing by child ? or yourself if u r not good enough (how can u tell if u r ?) put it on a balance and the conclusion is simple. u might say "it depends on the situation", I agree, but u will be too exited to get the whole picture right and too little time to think about a safe reaction. If you trained yourself to attack when u see a gun u might do a big mistake ! by the way, didn't Funakushi teach to avoid fight anywhere its possible ?
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