There is no Best Martial Art

[Treebranch]

Metamorph said:

I was simply asking why the 1 person said it was better to train a TMA then more then 1 art I didnt say a TMA cant be a MMA because that TMA is 1 style weather it has ground and standup or just 1 it is still 1 style

 

The fact of the matter is something like Kung Fu Sansoo, Krag Maga, Budo Taijutsu, Atemi Ryu Jujitsu, are all considered Traditional. They are all Combat Martial Arts. Just because they don't use these kind of Martial Arts in UFC doesn't mean they don't incorporate striking, grappling, ground fighting, throws, chokes etc.., they do. So what if it's one style, it incorporate all the above and much more. The benefit of studying one style like the one above is that the transitions and movements are particular to that style. This means you don't have to learn to move 3 or 4 different ways to get the result you want. I'M GOING TO SAY THIS AGAIN, MMA'S ARE GREAT BUT IT'S NOT THE ONLY WAY. All Combat Martial Arts are Mixed Martial Arts. They were just mixed a long time ago, by people who actually had to use this stuff in life and death situations.

[AndrewGreen]

MMA's teaches how to fight an opponent in your own weight class in the street you don't know what you'll get. You can't fight a 250 lb guy the same you would fight a 150 lb guy.

 

And you can't fight either if you never actually do fight either.

 

Do you really believe that MMA only trains with people their own weight?

 

Thats silly, MMA trains against everyone, any weight. Once again you are only considering the sport format, not the Training methos as a whole.

You haven't even mentioned weapons training (firearms excluded from this of course), what kind of weapon training is taught in MMA's that I can't learn from Budo Taijutsu.

 

Yes I have, a few times. Some do, some don't. Weapons are a big part of my training, and they are trained in a sport format.

I don't have to cut someone's head off to know the sword can cut. We train full contact with certain techniques, I think that's what your getting at.

 

So do it with all, just don't use a real sword... which is not really a practical weapon anyway is it?

The training methods we do are the same as MMA's, I'm just saying this MA is already been mixed.

 

No they aren't. If they where why would you be getting so upset about me saying MMA training methods are superior?

The "deadly techniques" work, they were tested in the battlefield and Grandmaster Takamatsu had something like 17 death matches and killed 9 of them, I don't know what happen to the others.

 

So what, have you? No? Then how can you be sure YOU can do it. I don't care what he could do, I care what I can do.

all MA's are valid.

 

No they aren't.

[metamorph]

man go to sherdog.com or Renzos school talk to him about this its not an MMA if it doesnt mix more then 1 style juz cuz a style has ground and striking and was 2 diff arts years ago dont I get what u r saying but it has became 1 are so by learning that 1 art you are not learning MMA as a training technique

[Treebranch]

Andrew Green, I'm not talking about Modern Military Training, I never brought that up, you did. I was talking about Fuedal Japan where Budo Taijutsu was battle tested, that all. I explained the training method we use they are the same. You don't study at my school how would you know how we train? Our training methods are realistic, we don't stand around dancing like a lot of Dogmatic Schools out there. We train full speed with certain thing like, striking, kicking and some throws. We grapple and do ground work, and we study weapons. I have always been fascinated with the Sword, I desire to learn weapons. Just because I can't walk around with a Katana doesn't mean I shouldn't study it. Weapon training is important to me, and I think if you want to be a well rounded Combat Martial Artist it is necessary to learn them. I invite you to go to a Bujinkan Dojo and have them show you some techniques, you will be very surprised. I didn't know what Budo Taijutsu was all about 5 years ago. I thought it was bunch of people sneaking around in black tights, throwing shurikens at people. Now that I am studying it I see that it's not about that, it never was. Hollywood Ninja Movies gave that artform a bad rap. It is a very unpopular MA to study today, it is not the latest rage, like MMA's is. Nevertheless it doesn't make outdated or invalid, on the contrary it really test the students dedication to learning it. I'm not training to be in the Military, I am just like you training in Martial Arts. I have my reasons, and you have yours. You think your right, I think your wrong. Besides I never said that MMA's training was bad or wrong or doesn't work. I just said MMA's itself it not the only way to learn MA's, it is just one of many ways. Do you think anyone trains harder and more rigorously than the Shoalin Monks in China? You or I personally will never find out the effectiveness of their MA unless you attack one of them. I dare you to go to Toyko and attack Soke Hatsumi, you won't last a second. By the way I checked out your curriculum online it's not much different then ours, I'm surprised you don't know that.

[SevenStar]

We have the same amount of hand strikes as well, and there's more to fighting than standing toe to toe and exchanging blows.

 

There's a whole lot more - that's not what mma is about.

Yeah we have hundreds of techniques, but we don't memorize them and try to fit techniques into a situation. We respond just like you do, we are just taught to move differently than a kickboxer, grappler or a shoot fighter.

 

that's my point. How many of those will you actually use? not many. you will use the ones that you are comfortable with from using on a regular basis. If budo taijustsu has similar footwork to other japanese styles, then it's not that different, other than the stances.

MMA's teaches how to fight an opponent in your own weight class in the street you don't know what you'll get. You can't fight a 250 lb guy the same you would fight a 150 lb guy.

 

That's the biggest load of BS I've ever heard. If you think that, go fight a smaller mma guy -you'll be surprised. if you train taijutsu, you know how the body works - you know very well that what you said is false.

You haven't even mentioned weapons training (firearms excluded from this of course), what kind of weapon training is taught in MMA's that I can't learn from Budo Taijutsu. I don't have to cut someone's head off to know the sword can cut.

 

I'll give you that one - chances are though that you won't have a katana, manriki gusari, bo or anything else on the street. And I don't need classes to know how to use bricks. Many mma however have trained in some other style. I've trained in kali and in longfist, so I'm versed with knives, sticks, staffs and swords.

The training methods we do are the same as MMA's, I'm just saying this MA is already been mixed. Why is it so wrong for people who are getting good training from TMA go study something else. It's seems very unpopular to study TMA these days, everyone is so convinced the MMA's is the only way. There has never been just one way of doing things, ever.

 

Most MA are mixed - all of the chinese styles are, jujutsu is...the list goes on. The problem comes in when people teach things and have never really had experience there. For example, I'd never train mma with someone who'd never had an mma fight. The other thing is that nowadays, alot of tma are corrupted by too many things - the legends of their grandmasters, chi, etc. all the mystical BS and philosophy - it takes away from the martial side. One of the best fighters I know is a friend of mine who was born and raised in Japan - he's been training in karate all of his life, but his training was very different from alot of what I see today.

The "deadly techniques" work, they were tested in the battlefield and Grandmaster Takamatsu had something like 17 death matches and killed 9 of them, I don't know what happen to the others. This guy was deadly and he passed on the schools to the current Grandmaster Hatsumi. You can choose to believe that everything that has happened before you were born is all a lie, but history is history.

 

I know all about hatsumi - really talented man. However, I don't care about the death matches his teacher had. why? because you all aren't fighting death matches. you don't know that YOU can use those same techniques if need be. On the same token, I can't say "Yeah, I train at one of Royce's schools and also trained under adriano lucio, so my grappling is as good as theirs" - that would be false.

 

 

I'm not putting other MA's down, all MA's are valid. I just think saying MMA's is the only truely effective way of fighting is silly, and short sighted.

 

I've never said mma is the only way to go, however it's a darn good one. I will, however say that I put more stock in it than I do in alot of what is commercially taught today.

[SevenStar]

Do you think anyone trains harder and more rigorously than the Shoalin Monks in China? You or I personally will never find out the effectiveness of their MA unless you attack one of them. I dare you to go to Toyko and attack Soke Hatsumi, you won't last a second. By the way I checked out your curriculum online it's not much different then ours, I'm surprised you don't know that.

 

1. The shaolin temple is now closed.

 

2. the monks train modern wushu now, mostly

 

3. there goes the "my teacher is awesome" thing again. Can YOU fight like Masaaki Hatsumi?

[SevenStar]

even speaking on combat vs. modern, when kano was developing judo, his judo players mauled the jujutsu guys because they were able to randori and the jujutsu guys weren't. Also, their training wasn't as focused, as they had more techniques to work.

[ZR440]

One last time, I am asking those involved here not to trade insults and/or keep the argument going by daring someone to go to Japan for a fight, for example. If there is nothing that can be said that will add any value to this thread it might as well be shut down.

[JerryLove]

you add another MA and most styles made with A and B seem to miss certin elements of both A and B

And when you have added D to C then what? Add E? OK. And when someone has collected these all his life adding and adding, and you are training under him in what he knows, what do you add?

 

Your idea is self defeating. A combination of arts is an art; ergo the belief that all arts are incomplete but arts formed from cross training are not incomplete (which you presume to be impossable since you require all to be incomplete) is an obvious pardox.

depends on what you call modern http://www.judoinfo.com/jhist.htm is a good article for this

It's inventor can be found on film... that's modern.

I was simply asking why the 1 person said it was better to train a TMA then more then 1 art I didnt say a TMA cant be a MMA because that TMA is 1 style weather it has ground and standup or just 1 it is still 1 style

And when you learn 100 styles.. what you actually do is still just one style (even if it's made from those 100). Again, an oxymoron.

[Treebranch]

You know what you guys are right, I'm wrong. You guys are the best in the world, no other MA can compare to MMA's. We all might as well destroy the thousands of years of development of Traditional Styles and everyone should study MMA. O.K. do you feel better now? I do.