Tae Kwon Do improvments in Combat

[Severe Matburn]

Add more punching...allow full-contact hand strikes to the head...focus more on powerful striking when sparrin rather than juss scoring points. I would say add grappling, but i suppose that wouldn't really be keeping to tradition. Also, at least teach sum defense of low kicks, for gosh sakes, tkd guyz will keep getting slaughtered by thai boxers till you get sum low kick defense, lol

[aznkarateboi]

I am not referring to how to improve a class to teach Tae Kwon Do in a more street effective manner. I am asking how one can use their Tae Kwon Do skills in a different way to make it street effective.

[CrazyAZNRocker]

aznkarateboi Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 2:57 pm Post subject:

 

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I am not referring to how to improve a class to teach Tae Kwon Do in a more street effective manner. I am asking how one can use their Tae Kwon Do skills in a different way to make it street effective.

 

Actually, improvements on classes and using the skills in a different way are both accepted ideas. Any ideas to help improve Tae Kwon Do stylists will help, there are really no wrong answers, as the integrity of the arts is maintained.

[martialfanatic]

i think if you wanted to make taekwondo more effective for combat you should practice the basic, less fancy techniques. And learn low kicks and defenses agains low kicks.

[delta1]

...what would you ((the other martial artist)) propose should be done to improve the system, while keeping the traditional roots and integrity of the style? ((meaning the emphasis on stikes, stand up, and the increased use of kicks))...

 

I'd say this is the important question, and you've already started to do it. The answer is to question everything:

 

Why is this in the carriclum?

 

How can I make this effective?

 

How can I use this in a fight?

 

When would I, or would I not, want to use this?

 

What types of attacks could this defend against?

 

What couldn't it be used against?

 

What is this trying to teach me?

 

What are the underlying principles?

 

How can I conceptually use these principles?

 

How can I combine this with other things to be more effective?

 

Where would this work? And not?

 

Who would this work on? Who not?

 

Who, what, where, when, why, how...

 

You have to start to think outside the box. If these moves were traditionally used effectively in combat, they must be explored as combat moves to be internalized and used as combat moves. When we use tradition to limmit our thinking, we actually destroy the traditional application of the art.

 

I'll think about this and give an example in another post.

Edited May 21, 2004 by delta1

[delta1]

example:

 

 

 

ONE STEP- opponent challenges (steps forward with a right straight punch and holds it out).

 

Step forward into a deep Front Stance with a right inward block to the inside of the punch, left hand chambers at waist. Right fist then immediately chambers at right ear, palm out. Deliver a right hammerfist to his left temple. Immediately rechamber at the right ear, then deliver a right hammerfist to the point of his left mandible.

 

The primary application I see for this move is a defense against a high one-two assault (ex: right then left punches to the face).

 

One of the main things I see this as teaching is the relationship of your blocks and strikes. First, if instead of chambering the right prior to the first strike you think of it as an outward block, you see that in the block you have a strike chambered already. Launching the first hammerfist from the block uses economy of motion to give you a quicker counter offensive. The momentary flinch (black period, seeing stars, etc.) the first strike induces will then give you the split second you need to chamber and launch a power strike that coul finish him.

 

But more than that, this compares the use of the inward block and a strike- the inward hammerfist- and we see that they are the exact same motion. To give this strike power and structural allignment , you have to drop the elbow as you deliver. Same move, different application.

 

The deep Front Stance teaches you to get out of the way of the punch and open targets by steping slightly off his center line, and gets you in close (who was it hat said TKD is only for distance and doesn't use hands?). The chambering of the left fist gives directional harmony to the move in that everything torques in the same direction, adding power and stability. And thought of as a right/left combo defense, the first hammerfist teaches contouring, or following the body's natural lines to your target.

 

practical application Step forward into a Right Neutral Bow (fighting stance) slightly off center to his left with a right inward block from point of origin, left hand checks low, just off your elbow. (note that here I deemed it more important to get the block in place quick and maintain a check rather than the full chamber- but I still have directional harmony, just not as much torque) As he strikes with the left, I replace the right block with my left check to maintain control and simultaneously execute a right outward block to the left. This double outward movement uses opposing forces to generate power. I'd add a stance change here also, pivoting into a Right Forward Bow. Again, from the outward block, I contour his arm, following it to strike directly with a right hammerfist to the temple as you pivot back into a Right Neutral Bow.

 

Now, just for fun, let's alter the base move and do the second hammerfist as a knuckle rake across the eyes and bridge of the nose. Same motion, just a different target and we follow through- circling on downand then back in to an outward elbow sreike to the solar plexus. Left hand should check his head, which is about to come violently forward and possibly into you unless you stop it. You'll probably also have to do a short foot maneuver into him to reach with the elbow strike, which adds power by engageing your mass (gives backup mass to the strike). Now, we've got him comeing forward and down, and our left hand is in position to redirect his head and help with this line of motion. Let's turn our stance to our left, slideing the right foot back so the leg is straight and we are in a Left Forward Bow. This should take his left leg out, and if it doesn't drop him you will be in good position to finish him with a downward handsword to the back of the neck.

 

I don't recomend practiceing the base move, as written, under a full speed and force assault. But you should work your modification up to this level, making adjustments and modifications as you find what works and what doesn't.

 

So, we see that boxes are meant to be broken down and recycled! Then they can be used for many things. Storeing them assembled and empty is a waste of space for the purposes of effective fighting arts.

[Fat Donkey]

I know this topic first hand having trained with a traditional WTF TKD master and a WTF sport master. The traditionalist emphasised POWER with punches and kicks the emphasis being to knock or hurt your opponent. The sport guy was about scoring points on the designated areas. Needless to say I quit the sports guy. And I have used TKD in street situations and won. I also use many of my TKD techniques when I spar in Muy Thai and they often work. The sad part is that TKD is becoming "watered" down especially here in the west. Its a big money and sport franchise were success is measured by trophies. The same thing happened to Shotokan back in the eighties and is probably going to affect BJJ and MMA in the future.

[delta1]

Well, Large Beastie, I have to agree about the arts- all arts- getting watered down. But as I understand it, this is not just aproblem in the west. Japan and China, and probably other cultures, have struggled with this for centuries. The sad fact is that when it isn't highly probable that our lives will depend on our skills, most will focus on the cloth that holds their ghi together and the statues in their showcase. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's enjoyable to train and compete in sports, probably martial sports more than some others I can think of. The problem, or watering down, comes when we start to think that this is reality training. If you want to use it for self defense, you'll have to train it realistically. And thet means that , from time to time, you'll get your bell rung. But you'll learn what does and doesn't work.

 

On the other hand, as long as you are training realistically, I wouldn't worry too much about it. And as long as there are MMA venues with few rules and good solid hits, I don't think you'll see those schools watered down too much. The threat of pain and loss is a good motivator.

[delta1]

Well, Large Beastie, I have to agree about the arts- all arts- getting watered down. But as I understand it, this is not just aproblem in the west. Japan and China, and probably other cultures, have struggled with this for centuries. The sad fact is that when it isn't highly probable that our lives will depend on our skills, most will focus on the cloth that holds their ghi together and the statues in their showcase. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's enjoyable to train and compete in sports, probably martial sports more than some others I can think of. The problem, or watering down, comes when we start to think that this is reality training. If you want to use it for self defense, you'll have to train it realistically. And thet means that , from time to time, you'll get your bell rung. But you'll learn what does and doesn't work.

 

On the other hand, as long as you are training realistically, I wouldn't worry too much about it. And as long as there are MMA venues with few rules and good solid hits, there will be schools that don't water it down too much. The threat of pain and loss is a good motivator.

 

Edit: (grubble-grubble)...how the @#%^ did I do that!? Have I told you guys before that I really hate computers?

Edited May 22, 2004 by delta1

[Fat Donkey]

I totally agree greek D Uno. There is also the opposite side of the spectrum where everyone and their dog is developing their "own new combat effective Martial Art". Some of these guys are downright scary. They "prove" their effectiveness by beating the crap out of their own students yet never enter MMA tournaments or accept challengers. Which is worst? I can't tell! However, back to the subject, I do believe TKD with the caveats u mentioned is an effective and viable MA.