Math in Martial Arts

[JerryLove]

I have to research how math is involved in martial arts.

It's kinda similar to how math is involved in swimming or running.

There are lots of places to go. Much of the reasoning behind the moves in martial arts is explained by science, and calculated therefore using mathematical equations.

 

Mostly it's explained by biomechinics, which contains a good deal of physics, which is based on math. But I consider this reaching. You chould just as easily argue that Martial arts is Quantum theory because we are all composed of superstrings.

If you're going theoretical, you could get into the Chinese fascination(for lack of a better word) with the number "3" and how it plays out in Chinese martial arts and how it has transferred over into Okinawan/Japanese martial arts as well.

Numerology != Math

Force=Mass x Acceleration is the best example. This is applicable for every strike you will ever use.

 

A common mistake. Newton devised this to explain pointal masses, we are not pointal mass (unless you are thrown at someone, and even then not really). As such, this really isn't a useful theorm for martial arts.

PSI = pounds of pressure per square inch. Look at the striking surface you use and calculate the force you can deal out.

Computing this would be math, wrapped in biomechanics... actually measuring this is just measuring.

Circular momentum, acceleration/deceleration, opposing forces... these are all areas you could talk about. A demo of a grappling move perhaps?

Again you are talkin gabout the math behind the physics behind the biomechanics behaind the technique... It's a stretch IMO.

Take a geometry lesson and look at how effective shape can be. For instance the angle of your arm in an overhead block can directly affect the direction of the deflected strike.

But it's less related to the strength of the shape than the relative connections of muscle and sinue.

[niel0092]

never said it would be easy. What would you suggest then?

[JerryLove]

Aside from an economic model on operating an MA school? I don't think I have a good suggestion

 

Coverting the biomechanics into math is somthing beyond my training, because it requires both a strong math and strong biology understanding. I'm an electrical engineer, maybe a physical engineer would be able to move from construction to biomechanics... or perhaps there is a biology degree that's heavily math oriented without being purely chemistry (bioengineering?).

 

Personally, I think it's a poor choice of assignments. It's possible that this is deliberate, though I tend to think this was probibly a "take somethign you do and find the math" assignment and "martial arts" was put in by the asignee.

 

That said, I think the most "true to the task" solution woul be a large statistical model of the effects of matial arts complete with conclusions... but the course you will probibly be happiest taking is levers.

[SBN Doug]

As has been said, you'll find the majority of what you need in physics. If you want to get demonstrative, you can show how locking the different joints in the arm transform it through 1st, 2nd, and 3rd degree levers. Then depict how after locking the arm, their body is on circumference of a circle where you are the ceter point. As you turn an inch, they will be forced to turn a foot, etc.

[delta1]

JerryLove, usually I agree with you. But this time I think you are wrong. You can apply physics, or bio-physics, to martial arts. You could take hypothetical figures and apply them to stick models to illustrate what happens mechanically in a movement. You can talk in terms of principles of math and how they are applied practically in a martial move- F=m X v squared, so speed is a major component of a hard strike. Math is used in Kinnematics, the study of what happens to the human body when force is applied. Physical therapy students get a lot of math and applied physics, which is why I suggested talking to a physical therapist. It will take some research and work, but this is a doable and potentially instructive assignment.

[karate_woman]

The direction you take will also be determined by whether you mean the person is actively thinking about a math related area (eg, angles, weight distribution, timing, distancing), or whether you mean the person is using a skill that can just be broken down using math.

[JerryLove]

If you want to get demonstrative, you can show how locking the different joints in the arm transform it through 1st, 2nd, and 3rd degree levers.

 

Levers, in three dimentions, with moving fulcrums, rotating hinge-joints, and give.

Then depict how after locking the arm, their body is on circumference of a circle where you are the ceter point. As you turn an inch, they will be forced to turn a foot, etc.

 

Or bend their arm, or resist the force, or move 2 feet and get ahead of you, or move you counter to your pivot.

You can apply physics, or bio-physics, to martial arts. You could take hypothetical figures and apply them to stick models to illustrate what happens mechanically in a movement.

Except you have no accounting for stability, envorcement, rotation, etc. I can show you on a sitck figure how pushing on your knee causes the rest of your body to move in the same directio, but I fail to account for the resistance you can provid, the ability of your knee to twist instead of bend, the result of you moving your foot.

 

Everything is math, and everything is quantum physics, and everything is relativity.. that does not mean that it's appropriate to look at everything from those perspectives.

You can talk in terms of principles of math and how they are applied practically in a martial move- F=m X v squared, so speed is a major component of a hard strike.

 

So strikes which begin from contact (V=0) have no force what-so-ever? So any two people who can move their fist from point A to point B in X time hit with the same hardness (assuming similar sized fists)? So there is no point punching through a target because it doesn't affect speed at impact?

 

I cannot agree with you here.. the math is so simplistic that it fails to offer a useful model; and math appropriate to the task would seem so complex as to fall under chaos theory.

Math is used in Kinnematics, the study of what happens to the human body when force is applied. Physical therapy students get a lot of math and applied physics, which is why I suggested talking to a physical therapist. It will take some research and work, but this is a doable and potentially instructive assignment.

 

That would be an appropriate field, and one I am not in. Considering my impression that this is not a field that is studied by people seeking to improving fighting (I am not aware that the Gracies, Tyson, Rhee, or any of their coaches are particularly adept at math), I would imagine that it has not proven itself successful at making accurate predictions, only in forming statistical models of what occurs.

 

IOW, why have so many crash-tests if you know the phsics and how it interacts with the biomechanics? You could just model it.... in reality, most of the models are gotten through statistical analysis of actual data rather than through mathmatical prediction based on knowledge of underlying physics.

 

Of course, that is not my field, feel free to point me at information indicating I ma wrong there. I'd love to know if I am.

[delta1]

Jerry, Jerry, Jerry,

 

You're not wrong, you're just thinking like an engineer! You are overcomplicating this. My original advice was to speak in general terms. It might be good to point briefly to some of the concerns you've raised- acknowlege their existance and point out that they are beyond the scope of this assignment. Acknowlege that your figures and examples are hypothetical and meant for illustrative purposes, and that they do not take into consideration all the parameters. This isn't a doctoral thesis, just a school assignment. He can do it, man! He can do it!

[DokterVet]

Beware the old force = mass * acceleration bit.

 

That's used a lot, and it's used wrong. Yes, it's a valid formula, but it doesn't give you the force on the opponent, it give the net force on the arm resulting in its movement (the unbalanced force comes from your muscles).

 

edit: I just noticed that JerryLove already warned against this.

[gheinisch]

Ok, I found some sites talking about the "Physics of Karate". They may help the gentleman doing the presentation and be of some interest to the rest of you. Hope these help a little. Everyone have a great day and a better tomorrow!

 

http://howthingswork.virginia.edu/journal/Article1.1.pdf

 

http://www.discover.com/may_00/featphysics.html

 

http://www.umanitoba.ca/manitoban/20020306/features_12.shtml

 

http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/karate2.htm