MMA or traditional

[Robert]

Have you seen the effects that Muy Thai has on the joints and legs when these guys get old, or boxing? Look at Ali and other Boxers who got hit in the head too many times.

 

Yes Thai fighters that fight full contact fights several times a week usually have problems...thats because they fight so much...the same would be true for any stlye. many fighters in thailand fight for a living.

Look at Ali and other Boxers who got hit in the head too many times.

 

anyone who gets hit int he head alot all their life will have problems...does not apply strickly to boxing.

 

Isn't getting in the ring and fighting the majority of both Thia and regular boxing's training. If so then the effects that treebranch spoke of would be common in people who spent a good deal of time training in these fighting styles.

 

To simplify: You can not train in boxing effectively without getting hit in the head alot. You can not train Thia effectively without being hard on the legs and joints.

 

Of coarse not everyone who trains in these styles will have severe damage from it.

 

As far as which to choose between TMA and MMA. I would say that you should choose something that emphisizes your strengths and minimizes your weaknesses. If you are smaller or weaker something like aikido or hapkido could be effective for you. If you are bigger or stronger something like judo and/ or a striking art would enable you to use your natural advantages.

 

FYI

 

With proper training most men can retain a great amount of strength well into their older years. Older does not mean weaker!

 

Robert

[Treebranch]

If you rely more on strength than you do on your skills and techniques, you are sure to lose. The point being strength can be used against someone if your techniques are refined, which I think you know. People are always advising small people to take MA's like Aikido and Tai Chi, but the fact is if these Arts are effective for small people, they must be effective for big people also. There is this preconceived idea that MA's that are hard, are more effective than so called soft forms of Martial Arts. Soft forms are all about refining your technique to a point where strength is not really a factor, since your using the attackers strength against them. Hard forms are in fact more effective when practiced by bigger and stronger people (that's why they have weight classes). So if this is true that big people are more effective at Hard forms, than the effeciency of the techniques taught are better suited for strong people. Since the Soft forms are not relying on Strength, than logic will tell you that everyone, big, strong, small, thin can all be effective if they refine their technique in a Soft form of Martial Art.

 

So basically I doubt most people practicing MMA's will be studying MMA into their old age. By MMA I mean they will probably pick one of the Arts in their MMA repertoire, the one that relies more on technique than on strength, like BJJ for example. So when you say MMA or Traditional, I say Traditional will be good if you plan to continue MA into you old age and The Harder Forms are more for the young. I don't think that's saying anything bad, do you?

[SevenStar]

Isn't getting in the ring and fighting the majority of both Thia and regular boxing's training. If so then the effects that treebranch spoke of would be common in people who spent a good deal of time training in these fighting styles.

 

To simplify: You can not train in boxing effectively without getting hit in the head alot. You can not train Thia effectively without being hard on the legs and joints.

 

Of coarse not everyone who trains in these styles will have severe damage from it.

 

As far as which to choose between TMA and MMA. I would say that you should choose something that emphisizes your strengths and minimizes your weaknesses. If you are smaller or weaker something like aikido or hapkido could be effective for you. If you are bigger or stronger something like judo and/ or a striking art would enable you to use your natural advantages.

 

FYI

 

With proper training most men can retain a great amount of strength well into their older years. Older does not mean weaker!

 

Robert

 

The assumption you are making is that they will be training full contact constantly- that's not the way they train. Pros don't even do that. You'd be training full contact 1 - 2 times per month, maybe 3.

 

Small guys can do judo just fine.

 

Older does mean weaker, but it's relative to the person. Obviously, I will be weaker when I am 70 than I am now. I bench press 280 now.... I gurantee you I won't be doing that at 70. I may be stronger than younger guys who train little or not at all when I am that age, but I will be inferior to a well trained guy, strengthwise.

[TJS]

Have you seen the effects that Muy Thai has on the joints and legs when these guys get old, or boxing? Look at Ali and other Boxers who got hit in the head too many times.

 

Yes Thai fighters that fight full contact fights several times a week usually have problems...thats because they fight so much...the same would be true for any stlye. many fighters in thailand fight for a living.

Look at Ali and other Boxers who got hit in the head too many times.

 

anyone who gets hit int he head alot all their life will have problems...does not apply strickly to boxing.

 

Isn't getting in the ring and fighting the majority of both Thia and regular boxing's training. If so then the effects that treebranch spoke of would be common in people who spent a good deal of time training in these fighting styles.

 

To simplify: You can not train in boxing effectively without getting hit in the head alot. You can not train Thia effectively without being hard on the legs and joints.

 

Of coarse not everyone who trains in these styles will have severe damage from it.

 

As far as which to choose between TMA and MMA. I would say that you should choose something that emphisizes your strengths and minimizes your weaknesses. If you are smaller or weaker something like aikido or hapkido could be effective for you. If you are bigger or stronger something like judo and/ or a striking art would enable you to use your natural advantages.

 

FYI

 

With proper training most men can retain a great amount of strength well into their older years. Older does not mean weaker!

 

Robert

Isn't getting in the ring and fighting the majority of both Thia and regular boxing's training. If so then the effects that treebranch spoke of would be common in people who spent a good deal of time training in these fighting styles.

 

To simplify: You can not train in boxing effectively without getting hit in the head alot. You can not train Thia effectively without being hard on the legs and joints.

 

wrong, when you train you wear things like 16 oz gloves, head gear, shingaurds, etc...so you can train effectivly without doing damage.

[Treebranch]

SevenStar wrote:

As far as which to choose between TMA and MMA. I would say that you should choose something that emphisizes your strengths and minimizes your weaknesses. If you are smaller or weaker something like aikido or hapkido could be effective for you. If you are bigger or stronger something like judo and/ or a striking art would enable you to use your natural advantages.

 

These are exactly the assumptions people make, smaller, weaker, Aikido, Hapkido. Bigger, Stronger, Judo, Muy Thai. I think a big guy will be really effective in Aikido and Hapkido also. Smaller people may not be as effective as big people in Judo or Muy Thai. So if Aikido and Hapkido in your opinion are better for smaller, weaker people, than what makes you think they wouldn't be effective for bigger, stronger people. I don't understand.

[Treebranch]

Read this article, https://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/traditionalMA.htm

[goshinman]

Look I have a lot of respect for the traditional MA. I have sparred with many people over the years from different styles to test the effectiveness of my style of jujutsu and I have fared very well. Every friday I used to go and compete in all out contact at a local no holds barred and grappling gym. I've had a chance to go up against BJJ, hapkido, and other styles and have done very well. One of the reasons I went to do this is because at my dojo we didn't "go all" out so I needed to see if I really possesed the skills I thought I had.

 

 

 

I went up against a bjj guy and we tussled for what seemed like forever until I caught him with an O-Guruma throw (basically a glorified hip throw) but somehow lost my balance in the process ( which usually happens when attempting a complex throw) and he landed right on his head and was knocked out. If you can picture this it basically looked like I drove his skull right into the matt while attempting the throw. He was seriously hurt and had to be taken to the hospital where we found out he had a severe concussion and a badly strained neck. After that I never trained in that manner again because I could have killed him and I don't want anything like that on my soul.

 

So I say that just to say this, just because some people prefer not to train "all out" does not mean that they don't have functional combat skills from the TMA they study. But I understand where the MMA advocates are coming from as well. I have dabbled in other arts such as; eagle claw kung fu, karate, and other arts that just weren't doing it for me be it because of my body type (6'2" 220) or because of what seemed to be ineffectiveness of the techniques. When I found goshin hakkoryu jujutsu I knew it would be my last stop. It takes the best of modern jujutsu and brings back in the kano/Kimura kodokan style judo techniques to form a comprehensive art. But even with that I still have studied some shuai chiao and catch wrestling not so much for self defense but just because I like to research the similarites they have to japanese jujutsu that even Farmer Burns himself acknowleged existed.

 

But I guess this type of debate about the TMA vs MMA will go on and on. I will say that I challenge any so-called MMA to find a technique that hasn't been used before in TMA. And since MMA is new and constantly evolving that shouldn't take to long...right? Better yet I'll make it easier for you, find me a BJJ technique that isn't in the kodokan judo book that Kano wrote or any other judo book written prior to 1970.

[Treebranch]

Thanks Goshinman. I could not have said it better myself.

[goshinman]

Hey Treebranch. It's not as if I'm trying to diss MMA or anything you know? I am just pointing out that there is NOTHING new under the sun and that you don't always have to train in a hardcore method to develope your skills. As a matter of fact I would say that most of my time is devoted to developing functional strength, particularly in the areas that are most relevant to my style such as my abs, my legs, and especially my grip. I also devote alot of time to breathing exercises and speed drills as well as cardio. I also spend time disecting the techniques of my art and developing combat strategy. Combat strategy to me is simply knowing what works best in a particular scenario. For example when studying my arts techniques I am thinking; Who am I fighting, is he trained or untrained and if he is trained which techniques work best against a trained fighter.

 

If you do these things you won't have to do hardcore training AS MUCH. I say as much because I still belive at some point you have to go all out and use it against a style different from your own just to see where you are at realisticly in your training. I think an art like yours has enough depth in it to were you can spar hard against someone else, and if you lose you can go back to your curriculum and see if the information is in there to do better next time around. The place I used to go to has moved to God knows where but I know a place called Ring of fire martial arts that holds a no holds barred/grappling type training session every friday night and they invite people from different styles to come in and tussle. It's located in Arcadia which is not to far from Glendale if you are interested.

 

These guys are hardcore combat hapkido/kickboxing experts so if you don't do well the first time out don't worry. Taijitsu is pretty comprehensive so just go back and check out your curriculum and go back to try again. The Guys there are very respectful and don't constantly bash you if you study a TMA because they are only interested in what THEIR style can or can't do, not what other peoples styles can't do. Now on the other hand if you go there and after a long time NEVER have any success then I would recommend that you look into another style or at least try to find a way to make your techniques applicable to the situation.

[goshinman]

But I guess this type of debate about the TMA vs MMA will go on and on. I will say that I challenge any so-called MMA to find a technique that hasn't been used before in TMA. And since MMA is new and constantly evolving that shouldn't take to long...right? Better yet I'll make it easier for you, find me a BJJ technique that isn't in the kodokan judo book that Kano wrote or any other judo book written prior to 1970.

By the way this is in no way a diss to BJJ, but since some on this forum seem to think it is exempt from the dreaded TMA label then I have no choice but to use it as an example.