Mixed Martial Arts, Brazilian Ju Jitsu, and Reality

[Treebranch]

BJJ is the most famous and successful MA for MMA competition, but not by itself, mix it with a little Muy Thai and you have a lovely recipe for a successful competition fighter. Combat is a whole different ball of wax, I don't think anyone in their right mind would say BJJ is the most effective Combat Martial Art, that is not so. In the arena of Combat Martial Arts it's still a baby, give it time, we will see.

[JohnnyS]

And what exactly is the definition of a "Combat Art" ?

[Treebranch]

Martial Arts developed specifically for the Battle Field, most likely in pre-fire arm periods of Japan, China, or where ever. Combat is different from Competition, your life is on the line in one, not your fighting career. Most Sport Martial Arts don't teach weapon techniques and in Combat you use weapons and should know how to counter weapons.

[JohnnyS]

If you're talking armed martial arts then I'd say that Kali/Escrima/Arnis is the number one Combat Art.

 

There's an interesting video of Rigan Machado training with the Dog Brothers, using a stick and defending against a stick before shooting in, taking the fight to the ground and finishing his opponent.

 

I'd also suggest that the U.S. Army trains in BJJ and that the ground is the place I'd prefer to fight with bullets whizzing over my head rather than into me.

[Treebranch]

JohnnyS take a close look at Togakure Ninpo Taijutsu, What an embarassment to the dog brothers, they should learn Hanbo techniques to add to there arsenal. I would pity someone shooting in on me if I have a stick in my hand, sticks can be used for more than just batting someone away. I'd like to see a grappler shoot in on Master Hatsumi while he's holding a stick, they would get recked.

 

BJJ is not designed for Combat, what the enemies fellow soldiers are going sit and watch a grappling match? I studied Kung Fu San Soo and I am currently studying Budo Taijutsu, both are Combat Arts. In Budo Taijutsu the thing they tell us over and over "STAY UPRIGHT" at all costs or at least be in a position where you can see around you, the ground is not this place. If it goes to the ground we have really nice grappling techniques as well, very surprisingly good ones. I wouldn't expect anything less than an art that's been evolving for the last 1000 years.

[JohnnyS]

I'm going to have to disagree with you about clinching. Rigan blocks the strike, clinches with his opponent and takes his opponent down and finishes him. Why you don't believe this could happen to a ninja is beyond me. Nearly all weapon arts have or should have some grappling component, as closing the distance and grappling will happen quite a bit.

 

 

 

If a clinch could happen to people who constantly spar with little protection, then I don't see why it couldn't happen to Hatsumi or some other high-ranking ninja.

[Treebranch]

Well you have to study Budo Taijutsu to understand that. Plus the person with stick was a little to confident that he would win, we are taught to bait the attack and move off line when you strike, you don't stand right in front of someone when they are attacking you, and you go with the attacker not against them, this is the big mistake people make over and over. Also with proper Taijutsu the strike would be a lot more effective and more than likely break the arm he blocked with. Budo Taijutsu does have grappling, a clinch does happen we love the clinch, there are a lot of very dirty and effective strikes and take downs that can be executed at close range that most people don't even think about, do you really think there were no grapplers in the warring periods of Japan?, and do you really think in those life and death situations that there were no counters to grapplers. Hatsumi was trained by his Master that fought in death matches, there is no better proof of art then one that was effectively used in Combat, the stuff that didn't work died on the battle field, only the techniques that worked were passed on. Please don't look at Budo Taijutsu with the Hollywood Ninja stigma.

[JohnnyS]

Rigan blocked the strike with his stick, then clinched.

 

As far as anyone countering Rigan's grappling, they'd have to be an amazing grappler themselves. With your opponent that close, no strikes are going to knock out your opponent.

[Treebranch]

Strikes are not always designed to knock people out, some are designed to knock them off balance or to create distance for a knock out strike or what ever else presents itself.

 

O.K. I know what video your talking about, if Rigan knew hanbo techniques and didn't throw his stick away there are alot of techniques you can do on the ground with stick. He could have held his stick between the other persons stick and the hand holding the stick and squeezed and he would have gotten the guy off on him and he would have control of the opponents weapon and the opponents hand in a vice.

[JohnnyS]

BJJ has been used for decades, teaching how to clinch and takedown without getting struck or losing balance from a strike. I don't believe these "miracle" techniques are going to stop an experience grappler who trains for Vale Tudo.