hobbitbob Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 To some others: Real fights are sloppy. Real karate looks quite different to generally what is taught. People who have never fought in the street against a thug should remain silent on the subject. Wisdom is teaching what you know and listening when you don't- many karateka need to have a bit of ego-lessening, even if they are young and impressionable. After all if other people take on board what you say and then get hurt when it all turns to sh*t you must take some responsibility for the outcome. Regards Rich Excellent point! "Real" fights usually end up with both parties injured, often severely. A Chinese proverb, repeated in the "Karate Kid" movies, says that those who wish to engage in violence should first dig two graves. One for themselves. and one for their opponent. Only in Hollywood do you fight a group of toughs, or someone armed with a knife, etc... and emerge unscathed. In my (far too numerous for my taste) experiences with being mugged and attacked while I lived in Baltimore, I never got out of any of those encounters without many bruises or cuts. I gave over my wallet, satchel, etc... more often than not, since I can buy a new wallet, cancel credit cards, cell phone, etc... I can't buy a new life! The only times I resported to violence were times when it was apparent that the assailants planned to kill me. I have scars to show from this period. The best thing for me to do would have been to move to a safer neighborhood, but as a full time student, I lived where I could afford to live. At the University club I attended, one of the yudansha one night was trying to show a group of impressionable lower ranks how to "disarm' an opponent with a gun. What he was showing them would have gotten them killed. The other instructors and I had a few words with him after class,and put out a disclaimer in the next class session. It is easy to think that your martial art trainng has made you bulletproof. Rest assured that you aren't. I have traken care of enough patients who have had blunt and penetrating trauma to ever think that anyone has better than a 50 percent chance of prevailing in an encounter. What good does it do to win the encounter, then bleed to death afterwords? Use common sense and avoid conflict whenever possible, and be prepared to be seriously wounded or killed should you be forced to fight. There have always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort Farm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54Oldsman Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Amen hobbitbob!!! In training for self defense we sometimes forget that once a "thug" figures out that we're probably going to get the best of them, the knife or gun are coming out if they have one. A blade or bullet can do mortal damage in an instant and then it's too late. Guess that's why we're taught to avoid violence if at all possible!! PEAT-MOSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Trouble with knives tho these days is that someone who knows how to use, and is prepared to, will already have the knife palmed before they come at you. There are many instances where the person hasnt realised they have even been stabbed until after! I think any attack must be viewed as a life threatening one- unless you live in quaint ol' area where friday night pub punch ups are the entertainment and everyone goes home with black eyes ready for next weeks. Seriously, you won't know if they are carrying until too late. There's an old adage- a shower never cuts, and a cutter never shows. It holds up enough times to be worth remembering. Younger martial artists, and older ones who should know better, please take careful note of Bob's post. He goes into enough detail that the thought of a real encounter should worry you. Training is fun- fighting isn't (unless you have rules and a ref). Please let good sense prevail. Regards Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_2k3 Posted May 6, 2003 Author Share Posted May 6, 2003 Hobbitbob and Rich u guys seem to know what your talking about and look like you have some experience, if you were attacked and the worst came to the worst, how would you deal with an attacker with a knife with an intent to kill you. I have been taught many ways to disarm a knife in Trodai Karate (focused majorly on self defence) but in the moment when your attacker strikes the fear of the knife and getting stabbed may overcome your teachniques and composure. Whats your opinion on this. "When my enemy contracts I expand and when he expands I contract" - Bruce Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 This is what is wrong wight Karate today: DREAMING In a fight the nuro adrenaling starts to pump adrenalin to the body. Blood rushes to the inestinal organs so if cut round the face blood doesnt get in the way. This is why faces tend to go white in a fight. You will start to have tunnel vision (blinkiring of eyes) so that vision improves and if taked to the ground dust and dirt doesnt get into you eyes. Limbs may start shaking as the adrenalin gets pumped into them. These are just some of the many natural bodily reactions to confrontaion which happens to EVERYONE and is natural and protects the body. So what happens. You revert back to your karate lessons of block counter strike. The guy comes up, your mouth pale, your legs trembling, you feel the need to cry, you constantly ask your self "why is this happening to me! Why can't this feeling just go away!". This is real life. The guy comes in smashes you straight in the face and you then realize all you have learned is false lyes that instructors of what they call "Karate" and "Martial Art" have told them. In a fight everything is second nature. This doesnt meen lining people up and down the dojo punching thin air. It means pracicing you kata, taking the REAL LIFE applications of the kata and practicing them against a live fit oppenant who is trying rto resisit. And you create and environment that triggers the adrenal glands into action so when you feel the adrenalin pumping round your body you'l know how to react. There is no such thing as a block, or throw in karate. These are 2 things which are used to teach body movement, and nothing more. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Hi Rich Neil lists some of the physiological effects of the adrenal dump and rightly points out that they are common to us all. You can't overcome this entirely and to learn to deal with it requires live training and pressure testing, as Neil again points out. Personally waiting too long can be debilitating I have found-the shakes get worse etc. Getting into action helps to overcome this. Adrenaline needs to be utilised- either to leg it or fight- not to stand still. With regards to the knife. If someone is intent on killing you with one and you don't see it, as is common, then you will end up in a very bad way or worse. At this point 'winning' is still breathing at the end. That's one reason to always try to hit hard, hit first and keep on hitting until the threat is neutralised- you don't know what's in their hand (Be aware of your laws on reasonable force and don't think this applies to the local drunk (unless he is really dangerous of course) or a mouthy youth- but still be aware of body language to try to ascertain the threat and anything that might be hidden during a verbal exchange). Knife disarms can be suicidal so taking the knife away would only be done if the opponent is stunned so it can be attempted at all, you are still hitting as you go, and the knife is presented to you in a way that fosters all of this. Don't focus solely on the knife in other words. I am no knife expert and there are only a few people with real experience but that is pretty much the theme. Obviously, awareness and avoidance of situations where this may occur are your number one priorities. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 This is what is wrong wight Karate today: DREAMING In a fight the nuro adrenaling starts to pump adrenalin to the body. Blood rushes to the inestinal organs so if cut round the face blood doesnt get in the way. Neil Actually Neil, the exact opposite happens. Blood flow is restricted to all of the digestive organs. The blood flow is directed to the muscles, the skin, the brain and respiratory organs - where it is most needed. The body has no need to be digesting when it enters the 'fight or flight' mode, which is what occurs when it is suddenly confronted by something that it percieves as a threat. As a point of interest: In extreme situations it is known for the body to completley neglect and lose controll over the digestive system. As an example, back in World War II, it was noticed that in the American soldiers that were assaulting the beaches in the Pacific against the Japanese, it would be very common for the soldiers to deficate and urinate uncontrollably. It was concluded that due to the extreme stress of the situation their bodies shut down everything that was not necessary for their survival on the battlefield. The digestive system and subsequent sphincters were such things. The more you beed in training, the less you bleed in battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54Oldsman Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 Dazza, If the fight gets bad enough to lose the sphincter, at least we stand a chance of the smell driving the attacker away!! Just kidding!! PEAT-MOSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theswarm Posted May 7, 2003 Share Posted May 7, 2003 i know someone that was getting mugged by a knife wielding attacker - he grabbed the blade with his hand (and we're not talking that whole ninja grab the sword without getting slashed business) and punched the guy in the face - his hand still has the slash wound - and the knife wielding attacker ran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 Thanks for the correction. I just remember my teacher talking about certain bodily reactions and probobly got it mixed around. It is interesting to understand all the reactions to adrenalin but what I think is more important is understanding how to use thuis understanding to our advantage. In the moment between aniticapation and confrontation the adrenalin can be controlled with diaphragmatic breathing (deep controlled breathing throught the nose. This slows down the realese of adrenaling aloowing you to think more clearly and it now overwhelming you. Also the knowledge that it is okay to be scared and the feelings should be accepted and not faught can help as well. A brialliant book to get is 'Fear' by Geoff Thompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts