Neil Posted May 8, 2003 Posted May 8, 2003 TKD is a krappy sport, and is a very bad version of Shotokan karate, that is less than a century old, created by a man who had no idea what he was doing. TKD is a Do and is NOT a Martial Art!
karate_woman Posted May 8, 2003 Posted May 8, 2003 Do and jutsu are not mutually exclusive, though you seem to believe it is so. I direct you to an article discussing the subject http://www.shotokankata.com/Articles/Jutsu.htm, though I doubt you'll read it, or if you do, whether it will change your mind as you're obviously biased against "do". I practice Okinawan Goju Ryu Karate Do, and I must say, we certainly practice the jutsu as well, even if you think - without even going into my dojo - that we don't. 'nuff said. As for the blatant style bashing of TKD..though I don't practice TKD, I find that offensive. Need I remind you that Goju was also created in the 20th century? Oh that's right...you study "jutsu", you may not have learned about the history, like we do when we study "do" Yes, Goju draws upon older traditions, but the fact remains that it was founded in the 20th century. Does that make it invalid? Since you study it I doubt you think so, nor do I. The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step. -Lao-Tse
Anduina Posted May 8, 2003 Posted May 8, 2003 TKD is a krappy sport, and is a very bad version of Shotokan karate, that is less than a century old, created by a man who had no idea what he was doing. TKD is a Do and is NOT a Martial Art!OK today TKD maby isn't the most effective but I think that is becouse most of clubs practise only to started in competitions. TKD is an olimpic sport(WTF). But there are a few places where TKD is a good MA. And you can't say that Choi Hong Hi "had no idea what he was doing". He was very good fighter and teacher. He mixed Taekyon and karate And his TKD was a hard school of live and MA.
SaiFightsMS Posted May 8, 2003 Posted May 8, 2003 Please remember that to show respect for other martial arts than just your own. Calling what someone else does "krappy" is inappropriate behaviour.
AndrewGreen Posted May 9, 2003 Posted May 9, 2003 Patterns/ katas? are: Hei-an I, II, III, IV and V - From Shotokan Karate, created by Itosu (One of Gichin Funakoshi's instructors), Pinan in Okinawa Bat-sai - Shotokan's Bassai dai, Passai in Okinawan styles. Several versions of this kata exist and it is thought to have surfaced in the Tomari region of Okinawa. En-bi - shotokans "Empi", Wansu/wanshu, in Okinawan karate, another Tomari based kata/ Ro-hai - Shotokans Menkyu, Rohai in Okinawa, another Tomari one I believe. Kouh-shang-kouh - Kanku dai in Shotokan, Kusanku/kushanku/and a few others in Okinawa. The "big" kata in most Shorin-ryu based systems. Tet-ki I, II and III - Tekki I, II & III from Shotokan, Naihanchi (and other similar pronunciations) in Okinawa. I is old tomari/shorin kata that is considered the "base" kata by many. II & III where created by Itosu. Prior to the Pinan/heian kata being created these where generally taught first in many systems. Jit-te - Shotokan's Jitte... Han-Getsu - Shotokan's Hangetsu, seisan in Okinawa. Used in many different styles and many different versions. Ji-on - Shotokans Jion... Done from memory so I may have mixed somethings up … Andrew Greenhttp://innovativema.ca - All the top martial arts news!
Neil Posted May 9, 2003 Posted May 9, 2003 I have already read this article and looking at the applications page can tell that these people don't really have a clue. Anything with the suffix Do is NOT a Martial Art. Do literally translates to way/place. But is basic meaning is to make a Martial Art safe so it ca be practised safely as a sport. It has nothing to do with fighting. They say that you need Do to show the mental character and with only Jutsu you would just be a violent thug. Jutsu systems are hundreds of years old and its first uses where to create social etiquette and order within society. It was used for religion, health, and creating a stable character. Its very last use and only application was to destroy the enemy in self defence. And then you people go on about the Do in Japanese Karate and how you need Do for the character, and Jutsu just for the applications. You haven’t even got any Jutsu anyway. Your applications are down to the block/punch routine which was used in Okinawa to learn range of movement and strengthen the techniques, not the applications. Applications was brought out by pushing hands and trying applications directly from the kata and applying them on a fit person trying to resist. Not this crap about marching up and down the dojo floor to no where. Here is an extract from Steve Morris's Article "All, it seems, preferring instead-liie the many 4th, 5th and 6th Dan senior representatives of the world's leading Okinawan and Japanese masters who had visited me over the years and who effectively declared the same-to continue in perpetuating those empty legacies only suitable for the teaching of scoolchildren bequeathed by Itosu Ankoh and Hiashionna Kanryo to their most senior pupils. Legacies which, after their military dissimulation within the schools, colleges, universities, military and naval academies of Okiawa and Japan during the Meiji, Taisho and early fascist Showa Era, were to become the very foundations upon which the Karate Shin Budo traditions or Empty Hand modern military disciplines of Okinawa and Japan now stand. The early Showa Era being a period during Showa troops, who believed their emperor to be divine and the Japanese as a race superior to all others, whilst marching to an ultranationalistic beat of Bushido under an officer cadre many of whom were graduates of the Butokukai, butchered millions of innocent men, women, children and babies (some still unborn) across Manchuria, China and Southeast Asia between 1931 and 1945. It was also during this period that some of those who where later to become influential figures within the Kempo and Karate0do and kobudo hierarchies had served as agents for the Kempeitai, only escaping being convicted and possibly hung for their war crimes, like some of the men who recruited them, by the skin of their teeth. The kempeitai, for the benefit of the reader, being a secret military organisation whose atrocities against man would have brought an enthusiastic nod of approval from Pol Pot and even I am sure the Devil himself. This belief of superiority as a race that led to the rape of Nanking in 1937 when 250,000 innocent civilians were butchered, still pervades in Japan to this day and is one that leads to that self-exaltation of madness called megalomania that is exhibited by some of the masters of Okinawa and Japan, one that is often endorsed by those minions of the West who serve their every need. Despite, that is the obvious deep hatred for foreigners that still exists within modern Okinawan and Japanese society and their failure as a nation to officially apologise for their crimes against man that were committed during that last war." Neil
John G Posted May 9, 2003 Author Posted May 9, 2003 Much appreciated Mr Green, and a big thankyou for those of you who took the time to answer my post. Neil: “A great mind is calm and respectful; a small mind is restless and arrogant” Confucius. … John G Jarrett III Dan, ITF Taekwon-Do
Neil Posted May 11, 2003 Posted May 11, 2003 "Neil: “A great mind is calm and respectful; a small mind is restless and arrogant” Confucius. " I may be a young man filled with testosterone but I know what a Martial Art is. TKD has no respect,
John G Posted May 12, 2003 Author Posted May 12, 2003 Neil, If you don’t mind me asking, what is your definition of a martial art? What should it include? How long should it take to master the techniques? How much should it cost? Should it stay static and keep with tradition or should it be dynamic and keep up with modern styles of fighting? Given that many striking techniques can severely mame or kill people, should the application and purpose of these techniques be taught to people under the age of 18. (Legal age in Australia to be tried as an adult in a court of law) If so, who should be made responsible if little Johnny (15y/o) accidentally kills one of his classmates with a back fist strike to the temple during a scuffle at school. Should it be the school, his instructor, his parents or should Johnny be made accountable for his actions and sent to jail for 10-15 years? Should training at the dojo be realistic? And at what point do you draw the line, bruising, broken bones, damaged organs, death? And who should pay for the hospital bills and loss of income, the instructor, the students or maybe Joe public? Given these considerations, once mastered, and made accountable for the action of those you teach under the age of 18. Would you teach your art as a Jutsu to masses or as a Do (using your definition of Jutsu and Do)? Or would you (as some masters do) teach the Do to the masses and the Jutsu to the select few? Respectfully, John G Jarrett III Dan, ITF Taekwon-Do
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