G95champ Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Yeah Im saying any true black belt can hold their own against anyone. Now true is the key word. Gracie and Tank, and Tito and anyone you want to add to that list. Those guys are great but they fight with rules. A true black belt will attack Groin, eyes, throat, etc... Your right sparring is not fighting. Im not saying Tank and Tito won't do that either but my statement was hold their own now win. (General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJS Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Yeah Im saying any true black belt can hold their own against anyone. Now true is the key word. Gracie and Tank, and Tito and anyone you want to add to that list. Those guys are great but they fight with rules. A true black belt will attack Groin, eyes, throat, etc... Your right sparring is not fighting. Im not saying Tank and Tito won't do that either but my statement was hold their own now win. I would much rather fight tank abbot in a ring than on the street..the same goes for any of the others. what gives a shotokan black belt a distinct advantage at groin/throat strikes etc....all of those things were legal in the erarly UFC's..do you honestly think for example a shotokan black belt could "hold" his own with a Royce gracie if it went to the ground? If you definetition of "holding their own" is getting pounded into a bloody mess or gettign a few limbs broken then i agree....A blanket statment like that is so far beyond reality it's unreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G95champ Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Anytime a stand up fighter goes to the ground they are beat. You know that I don't care if your Shotokan, TKD, MT, KM, JKD, etc. Shotokan gives you the chances of a quick KO and thus they always have a chance. None of those were leagal in the early UFC's. There is also a differacne in going to the ground on a padded mat and on a parking lot. You will never change mind nor will I change yours but any quality black belt should be able to hold their own. I mean they may loose but they will live. Broken arms and noses are possible in any fight. (General George S. Patton Jr.) "It's the unconquerable soul of man, and not the nature of the weapon he uses, that ensures victory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJS Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Anytime a stand up fighter goes to the ground they are beat. You know that I don't care if your Shotokan, TKD, MT, KM, JKD, etc. Krav Maga does have ground fighting and grappling...I would think that would be something a black belt might like to know..does Shotokan teach ground fighting? if not then all your years of training just went out the window when someon tackles you...pretty hard to hold your own when you have no training there.Shotokan gives you the chances of a quick KO and thus they always have a chance. yes thats always a chance ..thats just it, a "chance". None of those were leagal in the early UFC's. really? I recall several people getting hit and kneed in the groin...Royce got Bitten in UFC 1 (right before he applied an extra vicious choke) and throat strikes were pefectly legal...they were fined for eye gouges but they did happen on occasion.. so basically your entire reasoning for it not being real is eye gouging? what gives a Shotokan black belt a distict advantage here?There is also a differacne in going to the ground on a padded mat and on a parking lot. so Shotokan has signifigant training to avoid takedowns? heavy emphasis on grappling to make sure they end up on top? whats the diffrence? do you think you are going ot be on top against a skilled grappler? Usually the gaurd is a place of choice against a much larger opponet...at that point you have little choice. You will never change mind nor will I change yours but any quality black belt should be able to hold their own the diffrence is non of the reasons you have given hold weight or show distinct advantage...you can make blanket statments like that and exect people to belive it...lets hear some reasoning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbitbob Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Post WWII shotokan does not include ground fighting. Okinawan karate, from which Shotokan is derived, does. I would hesitate to "go to ground" in most circumstances. Either you would be kicked to death by your assailant's friends, cut on glass on the sidewalk, or injured on the concrete. TJS, you seem to be on a "my style is better than anyone else's" mission, and nothing anyone else says will convince you otherwise. That atitude alone, however, often leads to defeat. I don't know that any style is "best," but some are better at some things then others. Lets leave it at that, allright? There have always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort Farm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJS Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 I would hesitate to "go to ground" in most circumstances. Either you would be kicked to death by your assailant's friends, cut on glass on the sidewalk, or injured on the concrete. I would hesitate to be kicked or punched..does that mean it cant happen? Unfortunatly you dont always have an option so you should train for the worse case scenario. and the whole multiple attackers/broken glass thing really does get WAY overused...they are valid in many cases but come on. TJS, you seem to be on a "my style is better than anyone else's" mission, and nothing anyone else says will convince you otherwise Intresting, Go ahead and quote me on where i said my stlye is better than any stlye...I praise BJJ alot and also talk about it's weaknesses and defend it but I dont take BJJ...Same for Muay Thai..why? because unlike many people i try to take an unbiased point of view on what is effective. nothing will convince me otherwise? evidence will...so far I havent seen much.I don't know that any style is "best," but some are better at some things then others. Lets leave it at that, allright? Thats exactly what im saying i have never made statments like "everyone should take _______ style or "_______ Is the best" some stlye have simply been proven more effective than other in various situations..some people like ot ignore obvious evidence in favor of the " I do it so im going to say it can" attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbitbob Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 TJS, I don't come here to argue. Good night. There have always been Starkadders at Cold Comfort Farm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJS Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 I dont either..I come here to Discuss things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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