Opinions on Ki

[Guest]

This post is in regards to some of the comments being made in another thread about ki. I think it would be interesting to hear others' opinions on ki.

 

I don't believe in ki. The notion that I can use some internalized, spiritual or mental force to allow me to do extraordinary things certainly is romantic, but a little farfetched. I think ki is just another superstition that has been introduced to explain things that people don't understand. Physics, body mechanics, physiology are all very complicated areas of karate. The vast majority of martial artists know nothing more about these subjects than what was taught to them by their karate instructors, who didn't know anything about it themselves.

[fireka]

smr, you know i respect you very much as a martial artist. but i belive in this you have been blinded by what society chosses to think of reality, because it fears what it does not understand. but you do belive in it, and weather you relize it or not you use it every day. i am currently on page 234 of a book im wrighting about ki. i would ask that you read it when im done, if nothing else you will find it intresting.

[HachiKyu]

I to believe in ki or as i use it chi its all the same other wise the shaolin monks wouldnt be able to do the stuff they do such as hving bricks being broken on their temples or bending spears with their throats... I believe in it and will eventually be a master in it when i go to shaolin acaedmey in one year. I wish people could understand that it really does exist and not just think of it as a hoax as soon as they here the word but to give it more of a thought than anything else that would be very nice to all the MA who do believe in ki.

[Guest]

So, if chi really did exist, then why do only martial artists use it? Why is it only in the realm of MA that ki or chi is practiced? If this ki or chi did really exist, then I would imagine that it would be all over the place. Such an amazing power wouldn't be ignored. You could say that people deny it, as I do, but that theory doesn't make sense. Why deny yourself such great powers. The reason why it is only passed down throught the MAs is because it is a MA myth handed down from teacher to student and that is all. There is no evidence of ki that can't be discounted with direct physical evidence. If a magician shows you his empty top hat only to then pull a rabit out of it, then the rabbit MUST have came from thin air! After all, he just showed you the empty hat.

[Beer-monster]

I believe in Ki. And I'm also a professional physicist, so I can't say I'm superstitious. I think what is known as Ki is a combination of several factors, breathing, blood circulation, bio-electricity. It's some form of energy innate to life and harnessable, maybe its mind over matter. Our western ideal of the mind is seperate from the body and of god make this hard to grasp, as much of asian ideals depend on mind,body and spirit as one.

 

But modern physics show the inter-realtion of all things, and it has also been scientifically proven that Chi Kung and Tai Chi improve blood circulation, breathing, and increases the bodies heat and bio-electrical field. So Ki is probably a focussed and built mix of these and other forms of energy in the body, which is all reasonable. Its the superstitious words such as spirit which confuses and sheds doubt on what seems as a harnessing of the body and minds energies. We may understand the bio-mechanics of the human form, but the bodies use of electrical and other energy is cloudy. Not to mention the whole 90% of the brain which is suposedly untapped. Like acupuncture, it is said to be linked with the flow of chi in Chinese thought but with the nervous system in Western. Perhaps they're the same thing, or at least related.

 

The problem is that scientist don't bother investigating such things. Shame as I would like to research it.

 

Also not to offend someone, but I find the idea of a non-sentient spiritual force a little more sensible than an all-powerful devine being.

[tommarker]

Whether you think Ki is energy radiating from your dantien or just an outdated oriental term for what can be scientifically explained byphysics, chemistry, biology, and body mechanics...

 

...99% of martial artists have little to no ability to demonstrate it on a high level. Myself included.

 

I myself think it exists, and that science offers a path towards its understanding. You can pare down the human body to strings of proteins, but you will still lack the essence of what it is to be human. Same with Ki, IMHO.

[Guest]

I'm not a physicist, but I'm fairly confident that most physicists would scoff at those theories. I would like to see papers on the experiments that 'proved' these things. And besides, of course exercise ("Tai chi") improves circulation. Anyone can tell you that. People can improve breathing by breathing excercises such as those in Tai chi. What about yoga? Yoga is in many ways similar to Tai chi. Does yoga have the same physical effects on it's practitioners? Yoga doesn't include chi or ki in it's curriculum does it?

[fireka]

ki, first off, is not only used by martial artist. this is a big misconseption. in fact, and its almost funny, the most recent trend in 'belivers' has been among home decoraders! seen the rcent fade in 'Feung-shai?' it also has other purposes. in my book i discuss the seven elements of ki, they can be used to determain personality and relation with nature.

[fireka]

i meant to respond to another post by SMR. your confusing this with religion. unlike religion you do not have to belive in a 'diety' to feel its effects in ki. there is no diety, and it does not contridict ANY religious belives other than perhaps atheism (as it deals with a power higher than us, whatever power that may be) because of this, yoga does not require the mention of ki or chi for your ki or chi to be effected by the practice of it. there are also diffrences in ki or chi belives as one travells between japan, okinawa, china, vietnam, laous, korea (spits on the floor) and the philipenes. I prefer the japnese/okinawan concept whiuch includes nature and the seven elements (wind water fire earth metal wood and lightning) this is also were my screen name here comes from.

[Beer-monster]

If you try chi kung (not to be confused with tai chi) you should feel something form the first time. Not a being able to med steel bars somethings, but something. When I tried it, I felt a warm tingling like a warm, thick liquid running inside my skin. Unfortunately I like the time, perserverance or intructors to make the practise habitual. The warmth ties into raised blood, and the tingle to bio-electricity (like static charge).

 

But those who can use it have learnt to focus it, and that takes time. And in a our modern society, no-one wants to spend time. Those 99% of martial artrist do martial arts which do not teach Ki focus, I mean there are students who give up Karate for BJJ cause they want to fight and not do kata or lines. They want results. So with people like this, who's gonna take the time to learn Ki, when muscle is faster. Who has that kind of time, we all have jobs.

 

smr you said why does no-one else use Ki. Ki is the fundamental concept behind all chinese medicine including herbalism and acupuncture, not just martial arts. Nearly everyone in the orient belives in Ki in some form. Its just us in the west who don't grasp the concept, and most of us dont want to.

 

Also most of those who do internal martial arts such as tai chi, do not use it as a martial arts skill. Although way to release energy into throws and punches have been developed (fa jin) most do not use them. Instead they use chi to improve health and long life. The martial arts applications of Tai Chi movement though brutal are often secondary. Think of all those people in public parks in beijing doing Tai Chi. Are you telling me they are all hard, rough and tumble warriors. Chi is fundamental to China, and through Japan in the form of zen (which advocates focus of the bodies energy, which although they don't call it chi, amounts to the same thing to me.) So its not just us MA's.

 

What about the one inch punch, how does that work then, without Ki.

 

Finally On a slightly more immature note . Wouldn't it be so great if we could do Hado-kens?