JohnnyS Posted April 28, 2003 Posted April 28, 2003 People are their own responsibility. I'm not going to go out of my way and hurt someone deliberately, but if I want to improve I have to know that when my opponent taps the submission is on. If they don't tap then the submission is not on, so I'll keep applying it or tighten it up. If my opponent is so ego-driven that he doesn't want to tap and doesn't want to take responsibility for his own loss, then he's the one who'll pay. Why should I give up and let go just so my opponent's ego doesn't get bruised. The only people who don't tap and get hurt are the people so ego-driven that they deserve it. BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black BeltTKD - Black Belt
PhilM1 Posted April 28, 2003 Posted April 28, 2003 submissions vs. bjj, who would win? fight til you die
JohnnyS Posted April 28, 2003 Posted April 28, 2003 Please clarify your question. What is submissions ? Who is the instructor etc ? BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black BeltTKD - Black Belt
LOILOI44 Posted April 29, 2003 Posted April 29, 2003 Johnny like I said earlier we will just agree to disagree. We have different views on the subject.
JohnnyS Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 LOILOI44, We place the responsibility for injury on the person, not their partner. We encourage people to tap, that it's not important, that it's a learning experience and that you should tap and keep training. If someone refuses to tap in a grappling match (not a drill) then we can only assume that our technique is not on, and keep applying it. As I said the only time people ever get hurt is if they are too ego-driven not to tap. The way you're espousing encourages these people not to tap. They'll never learn that it's okay to lose and that you learn more from your losses than when you win. What you're suggesting is that it's possible to never get beaten in your club because you guys will let the submission go if I don't feel like tapping. How is that helping people ? BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black BeltTKD - Black Belt
Kyle-san Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 How is that helping people ? How is it helping them to impede their training through injury?
JohnnyS Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 So someone who is an ego-maniac should be allowed to train without ever tapping ? BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black BeltTKD - Black Belt
JohnnyS Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 I honestly don't understand you people. I'm not talking about a whitebelt. I'm not talking about drilling a technique. I'm not talking about hurting someone by cranking on a technique. I'm talking about live-grappling against someone who knows what an armbar/choke/leglock is and who refuses to tap because of their ego. If someone doesn't tap when I'm attempting a submission then I have to presume that I don't have the technique on correctly or tight enough. If that person is too ego-driven to tap then it's their fault if their arm gets cracked. Why should I be held responsible for someone not tapping when they should know better. I say it again - if you crack the arm of someone like this they'll learn their lesson and be better for it in the long run. BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black BeltTKD - Black Belt
LOILOI44 Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 Johnny, Like I said earlier we will not agree on this. There is nothing you could say that will change my mind on this topic. I still feel that if I am rolling with somebody in my class then they are my responsibility. I've been practicing martial arts long enough to know when a technique is applied properly. You are entitled to feel however you do, but I will never share your view. I feel that it goes against what my opinion of martial arts is all about. Maybe it's because my school is very traditional.
Kyle-san Posted April 30, 2003 Posted April 30, 2003 See, and the way I see this situation is that you're equally ego driven by feeling you have to keep applying the pressure to the point of harming someone you're training with. For my dojo, it doesn't matter if I'm with a white belt or a brown belt, I go my hardest without hurting them. I guarantee that within 5 minutes of me breaking the guy's arm, my sensei would be kicking my ass out of the dojo. I can't understand your position at all.
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