Karateka_latino Posted April 19, 2003 Posted April 19, 2003 I'll Never understand the people who won't tap in a training. It's a spar on the School not a "live or die" kind of match.
JIUJITSUFIGHTER Posted April 21, 2003 Posted April 21, 2003 some people have over inflated egos. what do you want me to say. jiu-jitsu is invicinble
Golden Panther Posted April 26, 2003 Posted April 26, 2003 Is "Submission Wrestling" just a catch all phrase for jiu jitsu, shootfghting, judo, etc. or is it an art all unto itself? I know a guy who teaches submission wrestling, but he studied shootfighting. He can't officially say he teaches shootfighting because it is a registered trademark and he's not affiliated with his instructor.
JohnnyS Posted April 27, 2003 Posted April 27, 2003 If someone doesn't tap then break their arm. Do it slowly and after the first crack they'll tap. Seriously, they need to take responsibility for themselves, and they should know the rules. I've cracked plenty of arms and legs from people who wouldn't tap. I don't like it, but it's up to them to tap and not get hurt, and it's up to me to keep applying the move until they do tap. Otherwise how do I know if the technique really works or not ? BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black BeltTKD - Black Belt
LOILOI44 Posted April 27, 2003 Posted April 27, 2003 Do people really dislike their classmates that much that the talk of purposely breaking bones and hyperextending joints come into play? Accidents happen, but do we want to potentially permanently disable somebody for life to teach them a lesson or "make them take responsibility for themselves?" That's just my feeling.
Kyle-san Posted April 27, 2003 Posted April 27, 2003 Yeah, I couldn't bring myself to break a classmate's arm just because he wouldn't tap. I mean, if I did that I'd get my a ss kicked so hard by my sensei it wouldn't even be funny.
JohnnyS Posted April 27, 2003 Posted April 27, 2003 It's not a matter of disliking them, it's a matter of them letting you know when the submission is on. If you're wrestling someone and get them in an armbar and break their arm because they refused to tap it's their fault. I'm not talking about white-belts, but people who know what they're doing. If they refuse to tap, how do I know that I've got it on correctly ? I don't, so I keep applying the pressure and if their arm cracks it was their fault. I don't go around breaking people's arms and legs on purpose, but when it happens it's because they thought they could get out of it, and well, they were wrong. I've had my own arm cracked when I thought I could get out of a submission and I couldn't. I don't hold the person who cracked it responsible - I should have tapped earlier. BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black BeltTKD - Black Belt
LOILOI44 Posted April 27, 2003 Posted April 27, 2003 Maybe I'm just an old man, or maybe it's that I study a traditional art; but I see a serious problem with breaking a person's arm because they refused to tap. If had a properly executed arm lock and knew I had my opponent and then "cracked" their arm, my teacher would throw me out of my school. From your signature you seem to have high ranking in your styles, I would think that you would know when a technique is applied correctly without having to execute it full force. I always thought martial arts were about learning and not hurting classmates. I don't mean any disrespect, but I like the idea that there is a good chance I am going to walk out of class in the same condition I walked in. The scenario of "cracking" somebody's arm seems like it has no upside. Nobody gains anything from the event.
JohnnyS Posted April 27, 2003 Posted April 27, 2003 I always make sure I tap if someone gets me in an armlock, and I make sure I tap faster if caught in a leglock. It's my responsibility to tap when I get caught. I also never crank on a lock too fast for my opponent to tap. People who refuse to tap are usually ego-driven, and they know the rules. If they don't tap it's nobodies fault but their own. I don't break an arm completely if someone refuses to tap, but I will keep slowly applying pressure. After someone hears the first crack in their arm or leg they'll usually submit pretty quickly. They'll have a sore arm or leg for a few months, but it's generally not enough to make them stop training completely. Once again, it's up to the person caught to tap. BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black BeltTKD - Black Belt
LOILOI44 Posted April 28, 2003 Posted April 28, 2003 Sorry Johnny, We have to agree to disagree. If I am working with somebody then they are my responsibility, and I am their's. In the dojo, I like to practice the golden rule. This way everybody goes home intact. As far as soreness goes, joints when cracked bad enough, and often enough never work the same; even after surgery. When you hit your 30's and 40's you don't heal like your teens and 20's. Also people's joints have different thresholds and tollerences. I just don't see the need to crack any of my classmate's joints. We are all on the same team. On the street that is a tottally different animal. It's just my oppinion, but I don't see any upside to cracking a classmate's joint. If you feel there is, then please let me know.
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