blocking a haymaker punch (John Wayne Punch)

[Martial_Artist]

Ah, Jerry, I'm not going to waste my time trying to "show" you with words what I'm talking about. It's gets me nowhere. (We already had this dance, remember?) And, especially when all it seems you are doing is reiterating my previous posts. So, I'll leave this with a few words for clarity for other who may read this.

 

What you're saying is what I'm saying. You say that I must make assumptions about my opponent in order to perform my technique. Well, yes, that is what I said. That if the opportunity presents itself then a kick would perhaps even be more effective than a punch. Seeing as how a kick can generate much more force than a punch.(We might have to open that can of worms in a different thread.) Then you could do a kick and it would be a viable solution. If the circumstances dictated otherwise, then a kick wouldn't be the best solution. That's the meat and potatoes of my statements. Anything else is just your conjecture into my words.

 

Oh, and Jerry, rethink your request for that speed test. How effective would punching a speed bag be if you had to replace your hands by your side after each and every punch? It seems the ability to hit a speedbag well isn't determined by the distance you cover with your hands from a relazed position. Neither would it be applicable to compare speedbad exercises with doing a straight kick in a linear direction within a timed window.

 

A speed bag is a coordination developer. It has no bearing on effectiveness of technique. How many times have you stood front-faced to your opponent and pawed at him like a cat playing with a toy?(Much like punching away at a speed-bag isn't it?) Also, you know, there's not much power in pawing like a playful kitty at a ball. Sure, you can do it fast, but while you're busy trying to catch the yarnball, I'm busy kicking another ball. Next time, refrain from stupid analogies please.

 

For clarity's sake. When I say doing a kick right (or any technique for that matter) I am referring to more than just having proper form. Involved in doing a technique properly are timing, distance control, strength, speed, power, form, and ability(which refers more or less to the comfort level you possess using that techinque). Simply having proper form will guarantee success. That being said, failing in the execution of a technique means you didn't do it right. Your opponent maybe better skilled, but had you done your techinque properly you would have hit. Thus, it does depend on your ability to perform a technique properly more so than the skill of your enemy. When fighting you should be able to read your opponent and adjust, adapt, and act accordingly and use techniques properly when appropriate. That being said, I don't see your point in stating my use of this particular technique relies on my opponent being slow, stupid, or inept. As I can perform this technique on any opponent who provides the window, skilled or not. And I have done so on skilled opponents. This kick, in general, is not always expected. And doing the unexpected can severely disrupt the rhythm of your opponent.

 

I think that's all I'll say on the subject. Anything else can be opened in a new thread.

 

MA.

[JerryLove]

LOL. In one breath you disavow the inherent speed difference while asserting an inherent power diffference.

 

Can a kick to the head ever be a viable solution? Did it work? It did? Then it can be a viable solution. Is it a good suggestion to offer a longer-distance technique with a slower limb initiated after said shorter technique has already started? Obviously I (and others) categorically state "no".

[54Oldsman]

with your hands out front guarding the"center line", an attacker is forced to punch around your guard, therefore the haymaker. the counter would then be to "spear" (ulnas to their breastbone, neck, shoulder region) stopping to momentum and then a barrage of close quarter strikes. elbows, knees etc. and then get the heck out of there!

[battousai16]

wow, y'all are pretty morbid. as the guy/girl in question is throwing a haymaker, the attackers fairly inexperienced. thus, maybe it's best not to do some crazy spinning-back-monkey-coil-death strike at lightning speed to the poor guy, and instead step out side the punch, direct it inward, and run away. as i see it, the martial arts aren't to hurt others, but to defend them/yourself; you can do this without killing the poor dope. be a pascifist. make love, not war

[54Oldsman]

Is it possible to look at a person who suddenly throws a haymaker and discern how much of a threat they really are? Maybe, maybe not. As a general rule, aren't we suppose to use the amount of force required to stop the attack and get away as unharmed as possible? If an attacker would actually think through what can be in store for them if they attack a person who is qualified to defend themselves in most situations, wouldn't they think twice about the attack? A streetfighter and a true "predator" might not look all that different in a dimly lighted area and a sudden attack.

[Shorin Ryuu]

I'd probably jam his bicep with a vertical shuto (knife hand strike). It is extremely painful when hitting along the muscle separation or even just the general area and is usually not expected. At this point, you can continue to close in and work combos or start grappling, or you can circle out, slip out, or push him away and then walk away, depending on what you want to do or what the situation warrants.

[theswarm]

i've seen some pretty fast haymakers

 

nowhere near as fast as straight punch - but still fast ones nevertheless

 

I like that thing where you grab their shoulder but my personal reaction is always to do an outside hooking block whether it's shuto or otherwise

[Thuggish]

catch the punch half way and stop it, its not hard... they do it on something as cheesy as the original star trek. captian kirks favorite self defense manuever, man.

 

or! you can put your hands in front of your face ala boxer style, move inside it, then explode an elbow into his nose, and a knee into his side or groin whatever, ala thai boxer style. thats my favorite.

 

but, since i i feel like getting carried away with it, you could then go further and smash his knee, rake down his shin and stomp his foot for good measure while poppin him one in the throat with your left since your elbow bent his head back, you could punch his solar plex then spinning heel kick him to the ground and jump on him both feet ala kiss of the dragon, then make a strange facial expresson and an even stranger sound like "WOOOOoooo..." or something.

 

....or, you could just tackle the dude.

[iolair]

I find a simple hip throw has worked very well for me defending against this type of punch (actually, it's probably the technique I know that has been MOST effective in real defence situations).

 

Of course, your throws need to be fluent in order to do this - practice lots of turn-ins with a partner. (Or at a pinch you can practice them on a punchbag!)

[Drunken Monkey]

has anyone else noticed that all of these solutions to defend against a round punch all involves a hell of a lot of training before you will be proficient in using them.

 

what i'm saying is, none of this matters if you don't actually practise.

 

cos let's be honest, we could all spout ideal scenarios and disect them with theories and techniques from the styles we study.

 

i've seen a round punch blocked and stopped dead by a simple tan sau in the right place. could i do it when i need to? not sure...