blocking a haymaker punch (John Wayne Punch)

[JerryLove]

If thrown well, blocking a haymaker requiers a good deal of force (unless you are much bigger than they are).

 

That said, a single anticdotal example doesn't make a "no matter what" rule.

[shotokanwarrior]

as he pulls back for the punch duck strike the groin. If u have room move back let him off balance and take the angle to his side.

[mikS]

I wouldn't worry about blocking such an attack. You wouldn't have to block it. A simple front kick to his jaw, solar plexus, or groin as he's drawing back for the haymaker will do just fine.

 

MA.

 

i cannot believe you just suggested a front kick to the jaw, lets be realistic

[AndrewGreen]

If you can't deal with a haymaker punch after a month or two of training (at most) find a new school...

[Martial_Artist]

mikS,

 

Are you not fast enough to deliver a front kick to under the jaw as your opponent is pulling back for a haymaker? Then you wouldn't believe why I suggested such a thing.

 

I have done such a thing and the fight ended there.

 

MA.

[JerryLove]

Your opponent was an idiot and moved with a speed more appropriate to a season of the year than a fighter. He was also too far away.

[Martial_Artist]

My opponent was an idiot. He did move slow. I still kicked him. It doesn't change the underlying logic of the attack. Why waste time working on blocking and then countering when a direct hit(punch or kick) is so much more efficient? Answer: It is inefficient to wait for your opponent in that situation to deliver his attack(haymaker). It is vastly more efficient and effective to simply hit him first: faster and harder.

 

MA.

[JerryLove]

I don't believe anyone is putting down the value of simply hitting your opponent. I believe the concern is with the choice to do as comparitively long and precarious an attack as a kick to the head in response to a short-range punch.

[Martial_Artist]

I didn't give it(the kick to the head) as an absolute. I gave it as an example; an addition to the arsenal of weapons available for such a situation. As precarious as such a maneuver is, it is accomplishable and even efficacious when executed properly and with the right timing. However, it is not an absolute, and I never gave it as such. I responded to the disbelief that such a technique was offered to handle such a situation. To help further explain the technique in question I offer:

 

When the opponent pulls back, and you begin to see them pull back for the haymaker(as you will if you can read a telepathed punch--as such the haymaker is), you can simply raise your leg and kick them in the face with a front kick. Since the opponent is mid-technique themself and not expecting a kick, or much of anything else--it is afterall: a haymaker punch and not simply a straight punch(to the response which: I would not recommend attempting a front kick to the face if your opponent is trying a straight punch, the physical dimensions and mechanics involved put you at terrible risk and inability to perform). The performance of such a technique, if the range is too close wouldn't be recommended, but could be ammended by simply stepping back then delivering the kick--but, if the range is contact between persons, then you have failed in the first place because the guy is on top of you and you have failed to control distance(unless grappling or performing some other technique at that range was your original intent), and you must do something else to win the conflict.

 

Now, I have done both in response to punches that were grossly telepathed. I have simply kicked my opponent and I have simply punched quicker. Each situation was governed by what I felt would end the situation quickest.

 

If you can't do the kick quick enough, or other circumstances make doing a kick impractical(range, environment, training, opponent position, &c), then by all means do not attempt a kick.

 

However, doing a kick can be effective. And that was my point. About a kick being long(I assume you mean time, i.e. seconds to perform), if I can take my foot and lift it off the ground and kick you in the face in the same amount of time it would take you to pull back and punch, then why wouldn't I kick if the circumstances were right, or if they demanded that such a technique were performed. IF I can deliver and return my leg in the same space of time as a punch, then how much more precarious is it?

 

I will be the first to say that if you cannot kick fast or hard enough to kick properly then don't even attempt to kick. You will only put yourself in harm's way. But, just because you can't do the kicks right, doesn't mean everyone can't, and doesn't mean that kicks themselves are ineffective.

 

Kicks, like punches, require timing and delivery, speed, and proper form.

 

MA.

 

p.s.

 

I have also simply kicked my opponent in the head in response to a punch when fighting(it was a challenge match--I was challenged) a blackbelt in Kenpo. So, my opponent doesn't have to be stupid for my techniques to work. Whether or not my techniques work depend on me, not my opponent. If I haven't trained enough then it is my fault I failed. My opponent may be better than me, but it ultimately lies with me as to whether or not I lose a fight.

 

I do not understand why when I offer an unconventional response that the first assumption is that my opponent was either stupid, slow, or unskilled, when the fast majority of fights I've been in have been with men who knew how to fight.

 

Yes, I have fought stupid people, and yes I have fought people who have trained in the martial arts. It doesn't matter who my opponent is. It never matters. I'm going to fight the same. If he does something stupid then he'll pay for it. If he does something smart then I'll respond appropriately. Stupid, smart it doesn't matter. I'll adapt and fight accordingly.

 

I digress...forgive me.

 

MA.

[JerryLove]

hmmm. I had hoped not to make this a critique of technique but you seem interested in discussing this.

When the opponent pulls back, and you begin to see them pull back for the haymaker(as you will if you can read a telepathed punch--as such the haymaker is), you can simply raise your leg and kick them in the face with a front kick. Since the opponent is mid-technique themself and not expecting a kick, or much of anything else

Presumption 1, your opponent is loading his punch.

 

Presumption 2, your opponent is slower with his haymaker than you are with your (started after him) head-height kick.

 

Presumption 3, your opponent will not respond to your kick

The performance of such a technique, if the range is too close wouldn't be recommended, but could be ammended by simply stepping back then delivering the kick--but, if the range is contact between persons, then you have failed in the first place because the guy is on top of you and you have failed to control distance

The range on any bent-arm strike is going to be shorter than an extended arm strike (usually about knee-elbow range). You can step back? Great, he can also step forward. Again your choice of technique relies on the assumption that your opponent will move like molassas and not reacto to you at all.

If you can't do the kick quick enough, or other circumstances make doing a kick impractical(range, environment, training, opponent position, &c), then by all means do not attempt a kick.

I believe the concern is that what youhave chosen is a bad general response... not that it will simply sometimes not work.

About a kick being long(I assume you mean time, i.e. seconds to perform), if I can take my foot and lift it off the ground and kick you in the face in the same amount of time it would take you to pull back and punch, then why wouldn't I kick if the circumstances were right, or if they demanded that such a technique were performed. IF I can deliver and return my leg in the same space of time as a punch, then how much more precarious is it?

 

You mean other than the fact that I'm on two legs with both hands in play while you are standing on one leg, blocking your own hands, and with your groin exposed?

 

Other than that, the issue pivots on your relance of an ability to move a 30lb leg a distance of about 8 feet faster than I can move a 10lb arm 3 feet. Like much of your argument and anticdote, you rely on a far superior physical ability (or completely inept ability by your opponent), rather than a better technique.

But, just because you can't do the kicks right, doesn't mean everyone can't, and doesn't mean that kicks themselves are ineffective.

 

But the problem is not you reliance on you doing the kick right, it's your reliance on your opponent being wrong.

 

Try this as a speed test, dropping your foot to the ground between kicks, work a boxing speed-bag.