Wing Chun punch would break knuckles?

[KungFuLuvva]

in any style of wing chun, the bottom 3 knuckles are used every time and it may look like boxing punches are more powerful but this is a common misconception. it takes while to develope a proper wing chun punch but it is well worth it. it travels relaxed in a straight line making it much more energy efficiant. this may look weaker but a wing chun punch can maximize its damage at a range of just a few inches. thats why it has the reputation of being the most dangerous art up close. look up some of bruce lee's famous 1 inch punches, those are actually wing chun punches. if developed well enough, the punch can give enough explosive power from the elbows to send the guy flying 5 feet back from just inches away. they just have a different type of power, for example, when you hit a punching bag with a boxing punch, it will swing away from you as if you where to push it. a wing chun punch would make it vibrate really hard as apposed to pushing it. you do not need to throw your whole body into your whole body into your punch, you'd just be wasting energy. think of it like throwing a ball. would you tense your whole arm up and throw your whole body into it? of course not, you'd prlly end up hurting a muscle. relaxation is the key.

[fungku]

You were doing really well until this part:

you do not need to throw your whole body into your whole body into your punch, you'd just be wasting energy. think of it like throwing a ball. would you tense your whole arm up and throw your whole body into it? of course not, you'd prlly end up hurting a muscle. relaxation is the key.

 

Using your body has it's advantages. I think both ways can be useful in their own places.

 

However it appears you think boxing punches are tense, which is wrong.

 

A boxing teacher will tell you the exact same thing you just said:

would you tense your whole arm up and throw your whole body into it? of course not, you'd prlly end up hurting a muscle. relaxation is the key.

 

and yes, you use your whole body to throw a ball, you just don't tense it all up, like you seem to think. I'm sure it's the same in baseball and football. I am not an expert in those, but I can tell you that it is the same in soccer. When you first start out you think striking with all your power and swinging your leg as hard as you can will make it go harder and faster... that is wrong. When you learn the proper way to kick you are not tense at all and everything is fluid. Same can be said for boxing.

 

I love wing chun, but I also love boxing. ... oh and I love soccer too

[wingchundroo]

Hello all

 

I study Yip Man wing chun and I have been trained to use the bottom three knuckles to punch. It is true the bottom knuckles are easier to break, (I am a radiographer and I see many hand fractures from a punch gone wrong). However, it is the way in which we position our punches that stops this. If a horizontal punch was used (like western boxing) and the three bottom knuckles were used they probably would break.

 

However, when vertical the forces the knuckles and fist receive are different to horizontal. I have never had a problem punching vertically with bottom three knuckles. I do admit though that at first I did have a few clashes, but as already mentioned in a previous post we do a lot of punching practice on a wallbag that helps us to correct our punch.

 

As for the whole body punch debate, maybe a body punch is more powerful. But is it as force efficient? It also takes slightly longer as the power has to be wound from the whole body. Wing Chun does use body orientated punches, they are just different to what most people would expect. It depends on the situation I think, using the body to punch often opens the centre of someones body out and has their elbows wide. There is a huge gap to straight line punch into, this is significant due to the whole centre of gravity and postural stability issue. Hitting someone in the centreline of their body makes it harder to deal with the force (as apposed to shoulders etc), and then there's the whole principle of the shortest distance between two objects is a straight line (barring all laws of quuntum physics and wormhole theories!! Although if I could use wormholes to punch with I wopuldn't need wing Chun or anything!).

 

Hope this sheds some light, by the way I am not trying to insult any other styles of punching, just offering my opinion.

 

Cheers

 

Droo

[KungFuLuvva]

i cant stress enough that wing chun punches arent less powerful than any punch out there. i've seen my sifu hit a giant block of ice from inches away and the block did not just crack in a few pieces or get pushed back, as it more or less seemed to "blow up". i found a the perfect site that explains the mechanics and science of wing chun, i hope this site will help people understand more.

 

http://wcats.com/CR-Lesson1.html

 

p.s. i'm a soccer player too i aslo think this complements my wing chun due to its hard low kicks and sweeps.

[SaiFightsMS]

Nice site. I don't know much about wing chun I will be taking a look.

[JerryLove]

However, it is the way in which we position our punches that stops this. If a horizontal punch was used (like western boxing) and the three bottom knuckles were used they probably would break.

while I can see arguments about the orientation of the finger-bones in the hand in relation to the wrist affecting their likelyhood of breaking... I don't see a valid argument that boils down to the orientation of the fist relative to teh torso (vertical vs horizontal); can you elaborate?

As for the whole body punch debate, maybe a body punch is more powerful. But is it as force efficient?

Yes. most people do everything from walk to reaching for a soda using their "whole body". Weight training spends a lot of time teaching you to isolate because it's natural to involve your whole body. Why? Because it works better.

 

That said, I think you are thinking of something more particular thatn what you are saying.

It also takes slightly longer as the power has to be wound from the whole body.

I disagree. Look at the one-inch-punch (It's WC even). Where does power come from? From teh body? Why? Because the arm cant generate power fast enough.

 

To put it another way... you want to extend your hand 6 inces. you can extend your arm 6 inches, or you can extend your legs, torso, and arm 2 inches each.

 

Since the latter can be done "in parallel", it's inherently faster (though other things come into play of course).

It depends on the situation I think, using the body to punch often opens the centre of someones body out and has their elbows wide.

 

I disagree. I just stood up, to othe standard WC pose, and threw three punches along my centerline, using my body, and without turning out my elbows... Take a look at a Serak punch (hmm... think I have a video of one at home... I should put that up).

There is a huge gap to straight line punch into, this is significant due to the whole centre of gravity and postural stability issue. Hitting someone in the centreline of their body makes it harder to deal with the force (as apposed to shoulders etc)

you generalize... the shoulders can be the centerline depending on relative positions.

 

It's not where the contact is, it's where the force is oriented toward.

and then there's the whole principle of the shortest distance between two objects is a straight line (barring all laws of quuntum physics and wormhole theories!! Although if I could use wormholes to punch with I *'t need wing Chun or anything!).

 

And yet it's not how planes fly or space-ships get places. The shortest path is not always the best or fastest.

[FistsOfFury]

Asides from other things, from a biomechanics point of view, the three bottom knucles are used because in a properly executed punch, they will be in line with the radius and ulna bones of the lower arm. Since the elbow is the instigator of the punch (in Wing Chun the elbow drives rather than the shoulder, as in boxing), the force of the punch will be in a straight line endibng up in those three bottom knuckles. The other two knucles are hence useless.

 

In regards to whether they would break, is probably only possible if the stirke is performed incorrectly- i.e not in line with elbow .

[KungFuLuvva]

I disagree. I just stood up, to othe standard WC pose, and threw three punches along my centerline, using my body, and without turning out my elbows... Take a look at a Serak punch (hmm... think I have a video of one at home... I should put that up).

 

you cant just throw 3 wing chun punches and make a judgement that another variation of the punch would be more efficiant. you would prlly have to throw at least a few thousand wc punches before the first one even lands right when you practice on the wall bag. wing chun punches take a while to develope but once you can get it right, i dont think theres any other punch like it. i dont have to reiterate all the science and physics behind it, it's all in that website i posted, take a look if you have any doubt then come to me.

[JerryLove]

you cant just throw 3 wing chun punches and make a judgement that another variation of the punch would be more efficiant.

It'sa darn good thing I didn't say that then (please read the post again). I can stand up and throw three punchs and determine that I can throw those punches with my body without turning out my elbow... Something you claimed could not be done.

i dont have to reiterate all the science and physics behind it, it's all in that website i posted, take a look if you have any doubt then come to me.

 

Wouldn't dream of it... All I'm saying is I stood up, and did what you said couldn't be done. I'll let you sort out the physics.

[KungFuLuvva]

Wouldn't dream of it... All I'm saying is I stood up, and did what you said couldn't be done. I'll let you sort out the physics.

 

i never said it couldnt be done, it just wouldnt be a proper wing chun punch. we have a way of shifting into our punch that i guess you can say uses body mass behind it, but when your doing a wc punch, think of it is not even using the shoulders at all. the shoulders should be completely relaxed. this allows you save a lot of wasted energy because the only time the person will feel the punch is at the moment of impact, and that is when you tense your body, at the very last second. any energy used before the moment of impact is a waste and thats why you dont need to use your shoulders. infact, when your shoulders are relaxed enough, you even get an extra reach.