JohnnyS Posted May 7, 2003 Posted May 7, 2003 If other techniques were reliable then wouldn't they be used by wrestlers ? Surely if something worked so well then wrestlers would immediately start using it to win. BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black BeltTKD - Black Belt
Treebranch Posted May 7, 2003 Posted May 7, 2003 Not if they don't know about it. Plus wrestlers never use small joint manipulation, and they want to take the fight to the ground, so they know the ground, they don't study close range striking etc. Go to a reputable Budo Taijutsu master and ask if he knows counters to grappling and try them out, it may surprise you. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
adrenline Posted May 7, 2003 Posted May 7, 2003 uuhh. learn bjj. my website: http://www.liquidfission.commy forums http://www.liquidfission.com/phpbb
JohnnyS Posted May 7, 2003 Posted May 7, 2003 Treebranch, I don't think someone is going to stop Rigan or Mark Kerr or any half-decent wrestler taking them down by twisting their pinky. Small-joint manipulation is very over-rated. BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black BeltTKD - Black Belt
ZR440 Posted May 7, 2003 Author Posted May 7, 2003 Maybe not fingers so much, but larger joint (wrist, elbow) are very effective if done properly. It's happy hour somewhere in the world.
Treebranch Posted May 7, 2003 Posted May 7, 2003 Ahh, it's not the just fingers I'm talking about and besides it's the physics behind this techniques that make them effective not the pain of bending someones finger back. I don't plan on fighting Mike Kerr or Rigan, but my teacher has sparred with some of the Machado Bros. and they were impressed. I'll learn BJJ, if you learn Budo Taijutsu. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
JohnnyS Posted May 7, 2003 Posted May 7, 2003 I've had aikido and hapkido people try and apply finger and wrist locks on me whilst grappling. All it did was pre-occupy them until I had pulled them into an armbar. BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black BeltTKD - Black Belt
Treebranch Posted May 7, 2003 Posted May 7, 2003 Well they were doing it wrong then. Usually locks are applied right after a good strike, the idea is your brain can't concentrate on two things at once. They weren't putting their bodies behind it, they probably aren't being taught the right way. "It is easier to find men who will volunteer to die, than to find those who are willing to endure pain with patience.""Lock em out or Knock em out"
SevenStar Posted May 9, 2003 Posted May 9, 2003 Not if they don't know about it. Plus wrestlers never use small joint manipulation, and they want to take the fight to the ground, so they know the ground, they don't study close range striking etc. Go to a reputable Budo Taijutsu master and ask if he knows counters to grappling and try them out, it may surprise you. every wrestler I know uses small joint manipulation. pressure points also - it's diversionary - the joint manipulations hurt like hell and are used to force a reaction out of you - they capitalize on the opening to make their next move. same with pressure points, only most of them don't hurt as badly.
SevenStar Posted May 9, 2003 Posted May 9, 2003 Well they were doing it wrong then. Usually locks are applied right after a good strike, the idea is your brain can't concentrate on two things at once. They weren't putting their bodies behind it, they probably aren't being taught the right way. That's the thing about joint manipulations - not all of them have the same effect as soon. someone with a flexible wrist is less susceptible than someone with an inflexible wrist - that applies to all joints. I've got pretty flexible shoulders and can usually endure an attempted ude garami/ kimura/americana, etc long enough to get away and counter before the person can tap me. same with leg locks. but not everyone is like that. My wrists are inflexible though, so I am susceptible to those - it will vary from person to person, it doesn't mean that the guy was doing them wrong.
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