13yr old masters!!!!!!!!!

[Kaju_influenced]

Thnx for the replies everyone but u seem to be mising the point its not about reaching a point of maturity or being an adult to receive a bb. A bb means nothing, what im saying is that i find to many arts today too rewarding regardless of age i was just using the child as a better example.

 

U see when a school is too rewarding especially to a child he will grow to think he is actually worthy of the rank but thats just my oppinion. In my dicipline because of this reason the ammount of traning one receives in the begining stages of our style is the equivalent to a 1st degree blackbelt in a more foregiving style so what i meant was more or less the false reality it gives too a younger student. I.E if that 13yr old was put in a streetfighting situation with four guys u think he will live

 

More or less i beleive that to obtain such a rank one should be able to be worthy of it and not by knowing all these forms, I am currently seeking a BB in kajukenbo and im still a intermediate however i know the forms and techniques for a BB but am i worthy of it no.

 

N e ways thnx everybody for the replies and KEEP TRAINING AND ALWAYS WORK HARD AT IT!

[BKJ1216]

Thnx for the replies everyone but u seem to be mising the point its not about reaching a point of maturity or being an adult to receive a bb. A bb means nothing, what im saying is that i find to many arts today too rewarding regardless of age i was just using the child as a better example.

 

U see when a school is too rewarding especially to a child he will grow to think he is actually worthy of the rank but thats just my oppinion. In my dicipline because of this reason the ammount of traning one receives in the begining stages of our style is the equivalent to a 1st degree blackbelt in a more foregiving style so what i meant was more or less the false reality it gives too a younger student. I.E if that 13yr old was put in a streetfighting situation with four guys u think he will live

 

More or less i beleive that to obtain such a rank one should be able to be worthy of it and not by knowing all these forms, I am currently seeking a BB in kajukenbo and im still a intermediate however i know the forms and techniques for a BB but am i worthy of it no.

 

N e ways thnx everybody for the replies and KEEP TRAINING AND ALWAYS WORK HARD AT IT!

Dont you thinkt hat an instructor would know if they are worthy or not? BTW 13 yeard olds are not that small, at least not around here. Most of the kids I know are bigger than the adults I know. If that's what you mean about the street fighting.

[hobbitbob]

Perhaps one of the difficulties is the tendency toward "rank inflation." Can one really be 6,7, or 8th Dan with less than thiry or forty years of training?

[Kyle-san]

How BB do you know who do not know how to fight or teach?

 

Just off the top of my head I can think of at least 6 from the TKD club that weren't skilled in either area (fighting or teaching) and 3 from the Karate club. There were yellow or orange belts that could work these 9 over.

 

The point about quitting if they can't recieve their belt is an excellet one. I know that I left due to complications in that area which is a good indicator that I wasn't quite over the fact that getting that belt really doesn't matter so much. If you're skilled enough to be a black belt, does it really matter if you have the cloth?

[Kaju_influenced]

Dont you thinkt hat an instructor would know if they are worthy or not? BTW 13 yeard olds are not that small, at least not around here. Most of the kids I know are bigger than the adults I know. If that's what you mean about the street fighting.

 

BJK do you even do a martial art. Have u any experience at all other then what u read, i can appreciate everyones coments about this particular subjects however u seem to still be missing the point,

Perhaps one of the difficulties is the tendency toward "rank inflation." Can one really be 6,7, or 8th Dan with less than thiry or forty years of training?

 

This is true, think about it if u are 15 or sixteen yrs old for intance and have a lets say 3rd degree would u not let that get to ur head? this is what i mean i just find a style that is too rewarding with belts over time will diminish the proper position of a growing MA. We must also think about street effectiveness as i said before when i was fifteen i sure as hell could not atall be worthy of such rank even though ive been training 4 long time but this is not the point like i mentioned a belt really doesnt dipict a good martial artist i just was wondering why some disciplines give it away so easily. Listen its very simple if ur instructor says in ten yrs you can get ur black belt then u might slack for 9 and a half yrs then the next 6 months work ur a$$ of because u know ur gonna get that rank. Its about proper growth as a martial artist that is all and i find a dicipline that is tooo rewarding will diminish that growth

[hobbitbob]

[Listen its very simple if ur instructor says in ten yrs you can get ur black belt then u might slack for 9 and a half yrs then the next 6 months work ur a$$ of because u know ur gonna get that rank. Its about proper growth as a martial artist that is all and i find a dicipline that is tooo rewarding will diminish that growth

 

If ina good Dojo the time to Shodan were ten years,and you slacked off for nine years, chances are you would not get Shodan in six months. Chances are you would never see Shodan. Chances are you would never see any promotions.

[AndrewGreen]

This whole topic tends to bring out some strange logic in people.

 

Some of the big reasons for not giving a child a black belt:

 

- They lack the maturity of an adult.

 

So what, what does that have to do with the colour of their belt? If you feel a person is too immature to learn certain things then don't teach that person. But don't teach them and then refuse to recognize that they know it. Maturity should not be a requirement for a belt. It is impossible to measure and I would expect anyone who was told that they where to immature to have their accomplishments recognized to walk out right there.

 

- They can't fight with an adult.

 

Of course not, they are smaller. Could a 4'11" 90lbs adult fight with most adults? Nope, so they can't get a black belt either? They should walk out right there too if told that. Kids can fight just as well as adults, against someone thier own size.

 

- It will get to their head.

 

Only if you make it into something more then it is. Should kids not be allowed into major competition in other sports because winning will get to their head? Will getting a black belt get to their head more then winning gold at a national or international compeition? Even a provincial/state competition? Should we ban anyone under 18 from compeition as well?

 

A black belt is really nothing special. It is a position of skill/experience/tenure within a group. It has no meaning outside of that group. If a school awards black belt after 6 months that is there call asnd there is nothing wrong with that. If they average 10 or more years, that is fine too.

 

Are the president of your local chess club, the president of Microsoft and the president of the United States all at the same level of influence? But they have the same title?

 

and then there is the bite the bullet response.

If a kid knows everything they need to know for black belt at 16 and they quit because they couldn't actually receive it until they were 18, are they really cut out for it anyway?

Not really it mostly shows they want to have the belt more than they actually want to learn karate.

 

Why would anyone put up with being treated like this? What it shows is that they are being discriminated against and treated unfairly and they should leave.

 

Joe over there is (insert minority of choice) and should not get as high of pay. If he chooses to leave it shows that he doesn't really care about the company and is only interested in the money.

 

Joe works harder then Bob, does a better job then Bob, has been there longer then Bob and is just a better employee in every sense. Bob gets promoted and Joe doesn't. Why? Because the job requires you to be 42 and Joe is only 38. Fair?

 

It is not about being more interested in the belt, it is about being treated fairly and having your accomplishments recognized like everyone else.

 

It is all just an ego thing. Many adults have a hard time with the idea of a child outranking them, or being of the same rank. So excuses are made to make youth ranks "inferior" to adult ranks. We get "junior" ranks and other things which show the inferiority to adult ranks. What 17 year old wants to be a "junior" anything? and why should they?

 

But we are not in the military, it is not rank in that sense. treating it as such will only lead to problems. It is a reward system, not a rank system.

 

So here is another question, Why should we give adults black belts? Shouldn't they be mature enough to not need the pat on the back of a new belt? Most are there for fitness or self-defence, does getting rank have anything to do with either of these objectives?

[BKJ1216]

Dont you thinkt hat an instructor would know if they are worthy or not? BTW 13 yeard olds are not that small, at least not around here. Most of the kids I know are bigger than the adults I know. If that's what you mean about the street fighting.

 

BJK do you even do a martial art. Have u any experience at all other then what u read, i can appreciate everyones coments about this particular subjects however u seem to still be missing the point,

Perhaps one of the difficulties is the tendency toward "rank inflation." Can one really be 6,7, or 8th Dan with less than thiry or forty years of training?

 

This is true, think about it if u are 15 or sixteen yrs old for intance and have a lets say 3rd degree would u not let that get to ur head? this is what i mean i just find a style that is too rewarding with belts over time will diminish the proper position of a growing MA. We must also think about street effectiveness as i said before when i was fifteen i sure as hell could not atall be worthy of such rank even though ive been training 4 long time but this is not the point like i mentioned a belt really doesnt dipict a good martial artist i just was wondering why some disciplines give it away so easily. Listen its very simple if ur instructor says in ten yrs you can get ur black belt then u might slack for 9 and a half yrs then the next 6 months work ur a$$ of because u know ur gonna get that rank. Its about proper growth as a martial artist that is all and i find a dicipline that is tooo rewarding will diminish that growth

Weather I study a martial art or not is besides the point so stop using that to duck out of the subject. Don't you belive the teacher who taught him should judge him? If the teacher thinks he can be a BB don't you think he should? In my dojo i'ts the organization that they belong to that make them do it, so should the organization tell them weather the student is ready to be a black belt or should the instructor who taught them have the say.

 

BTW what age group are we talking about here? Because around here 13 year olds average 5'10"-6' and 150-200 pounds.

[monkeygirl]

Well, BKJ I'm 15 and only 5'1", but that's because I'm a shrimpy. Most others are at least 5'8", about the height of most of the adults in the area, too.

 

I am a "younger" black belt. I'm 15 (will be 16 this month), and hold a 1st degree.

 

I have two friends who are 15 years old and 2nd degree black belts. Sure, they aren't the most mature creatures on earth, but they're not irresponsible, either. They are both Instructors at my school. Do they deserve their belts? Absolutely. Our test (I tested for my 1st degree at the same time they tested for 2nd) was brutal, and they stuck through it. They show the level of technique and fighting that is expected of a black belt. Even though they are fairly typical teenagers, they are more mature than some adults.

 

Let's think about this for a second: there are such things as child prodigies. Kids who graduate from college at age 13. Think of the Doogie Howser-types. Compared to that, putting a black belt around a kid's waist doesn't seem that radical.

if that 13yr old was put in a streetfighting situation with four guys u think he will live

Would anyone?

[ninjanurse]

I am not against 13 year old black belts but I question a 13 year old 3rd degree. By general promotional rules that would mean that he tested for his 1st degree when he was 7 or 8. That I have a problem with-unless he is another Ernie Reyes Jr. ! He could be-so he should be given the benefit of a doubt....I guess.