shotokanwarrior Posted April 17, 2003 Posted April 17, 2003 OK I will agree that once you are in an arm bar it is to late. Where Art ends, nature begins.
Beer-monster Posted April 24, 2003 Posted April 24, 2003 Time for my 2 pence. Why does everyone assume that there is such a things as an ultimate martial art, on the ground standing or whatever. A martial art is a means to an end, a tool. Is there such a thing as the ULTIMATE HAMMER, (cower before me nails mwa ha ha. Oops sorry). If you train hard understand your art and prepare, you will do well. of course this relies on good training which many karate schools lack (its not the traditional way, but modern way of karate that is flawed just for you anti-traditionalists) As for karate ka and ball grabbing. As a karate stylist and a jiu-jitsu practitioner, I have the option to apply armbars or strikes. And personally I would rather not follow my enemires to the ground. Too many mates and broken glass (also I admit to not being built for extended groundwork.) Sure you can use BJJ against multiple opponents. But why take the risk. If you can avoid getting floored (possible with a fence) perform good strikes to vital areas (eyes, nose, jaw, groin) or apply a standing arm lock, why go to the ground? Whats to gain by struggling for the submission or break, when you can just beat (or throw) him to the ground remain standing, the stamp on his head and leg it? And has anyone heard the term pre-emptive? In the end, hitting the * really hard where it will really hurt, then finsihing or runnning its the best way in my book. Safe, quick and less risk from mates and debris. ( And before someone says yes I do train groundwork, but as I said, I'm physically unstuited for it, and I'd rather use it just in case I get floored, not as the be all and end all.) Just my opinion, that I thought I'd add, If you blokes want to roll on the floor snapping limbs, and its works for you. All power to you. As I said its two different paths to the same goal. Mind, body and fist. Its all a man truly needs.
jmy77 Posted April 25, 2003 Posted April 25, 2003 Well said Beer Monster. "Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft." - Pres. Theodore Roosevelt "You don't have to like it, you just have to do it." - Captain Richard Marcinko, USN, Ret."Do more than what is required of you." - General George S. Patton"If you have to step on someone else to stand tall, then you truely are a small person." - ?
yoriki816 Posted May 13, 2003 Posted May 13, 2003 Time for my 2 pence. And personally I would rather not follow my enemires to the ground. Too many mates and broken glass. Sure you can use BJJ against multiple opponents. But why take the risk. If you can avoid getting floored (possible with a fence) perform good strikes to vital areas (eyes, nose, jaw, groin) or apply a standing arm lock, why go to the ground? Whats to gain by struggling for the submission or break, when you can just beat (or throw) him to the ground remain standing, the stamp on his head and leg it? .. I couldn't agree more. Well said Beer Monster. The problem is that martial arts shouldn't be so tied to the practicioner's ego. Something which I see far too much on the forums. I agree that I think that my particular art is the best. For me. Martial Arts are not for everyone and each individual art is not for everyone. I know there are holes in my training. It's the nature of being good at anything. To be good at one thing you have to pay less attention to something else. Learn how to use what you know as effectively as it can be for you, and if that doesn't leave you feeling safe enough then by all means find something that fills in the rough spots. Do you need to know how to ground fight in order to survive a confrontation? I'd say it helps a lot, but is not absolutely necessary. I'm not training to become a streetfighter or UFC champion. It's unrealistic for me to act as if I am. The only question I feel the need to answer in the realm of self defense is this; "Can I defend myself and my family if I am put in a situation where I have no choice?" Realizing of course that I am not likely to get mugged by a guy who has 5 years experience in Muay Thai or BJJ or and anything else. Against an opponent who has street fighting experience with little or no martial training, I don't feel that I need to be a black belt in six martial arts and compete in tough man competitions to prepare from a possible mugging. I know enough to spot the danger signs in most circumstances and get myself and my family out of harm's way, that's a lot easier and less messy legally than me rolling on the ground snapping elbows and such. The mind is the best weapon of all. Matt GilliardShodan- Yoseikan AikidoShodan- Goshin Jujitsu
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