Why some MA people get beat in real fights

[Kyle-san]

I think it is often amatter of whether or not the person has the will to fight when attacked.

 

I completely agree. I, for one, am not a huge fan of full contact sparring, but when it comes down to it I've got no problems about defending myself. In class we do these drills with a partner where one of us has our eyes closed and the other is attacking. When the signal is given the partner with their eyes closed opens them and the other one attacks, it can be anything from any direction and we have to defend. It's interesting to see how people react.

[theswarm]

i think what jiu jitsu fighter said is of importance

 

that's why I think it's always good to study a second art or to do something like boxing (even though i'm not the worlds biggest fan of boxing arts) just to get used to fighting different opponents

 

or getting a group of other martial arts friends together and having a bit of a go.

[valorJ]

Yes, I believe what jiu jitsu fighter said is correct as well. It also depends on your mindset behind your training. If you're training only because you like the traditional arts, or like the art because of fitness, you won't fare as well if you're training in the art for the purpose of self defense. Cross training in martial arts is also extremely beneficial.

[ramymensa]

To be succesful in the self defence thing I think there are some "rules": try to avoid dangerous places, avoid going in the middle of the night in "trouble" areas, try to act calm and peceful ...

 

In MA training. Train as hard as you can, always try to see the practical use of a certain move, ask for hints in SD moves (some are just like the ones you do in your art and it's quite easy to apply them. They have to be pointed out and you'll be able to apply them). Try to develop a certain mindset like some said, prepare to take some punishment (do it in the dojo, don't freak out after a small blow to the stomach Try to remain calm after this happened), learn to fight quick and powerful, learn to use combos, learn to fall (yeah, there are so many MAists who never dad the opportunity of learning this stuff), spend some time with a coleague trying to apply SD tactics and so on.

 

Those who are beaten in the streets are either beginers who feel like Gods after 2 months of training (don't say a beginner doesn't have this feeling, cause we all know starting MA it's a great turning point ), are not prepared (aware) or are just having a bad day.

 

Trying to cover all the aspects could prove the ultimate tactic

[Kaju_influenced]

It doesn't matter is you are a bb, but if you are afraid to fight for fear of getting hurt than your bb might just be there to hold up your pants.

Very true my friend a black belt means nothing only the begining of a journey. There are those taht can teach but cant fight and there are those that can fight but cannot teach valor is right about crosstraining thats all i have done my whole life except for the fact i am concentrating more on 1 dicipline now. Wether u contact fight or not does not depic wether u can defend yourself or not more on the matter be a good fighter but take this saying from the view through the eyes of a metaphysical streetfighter "Don't worry if u cant kick high, kich him in the balls and when he bens over to puke then kick him in the head!" but like u guys said there should be a degree of mental capability to be able to fight and win.

To be succesful in the self defence thing I think there are some "rules": try to avoid dangerous places, avoid going in the middle of the night in "trouble" areas, try to act calm and peceful ...

Very well said that is also another aspect we must focus on!

 

KEEP TRAINING AND ALWAYS WORK HARD AT IT!

[Martial_Artist]

Personally, I believe that the reason the martial arts have such a unintimidating reputation in the US is because of the actions of some teachers and students who really weren't a great example of what the martial arts are.

 

Growing up in a diversified culture I can say that the martial arts in my youth among my peers was ridiculed. In my house it was revered and even second nature. It was not uncommon for my brothers and I to be doing exercises in the family room, and then stop to wash up and eat dinner.

 

This is, in part, because teachers who shouldn't be teaching and students who have egoes larger than their capacity to reinforce are the only ones the majority of people remember. We tend to remember the failures more prominently than the successes. Thus, the stories in which the martial artist lost the fight spread more readily than the martial artist who won. (Sometimes this is also because when the martial artist tells the story of victory he is usually viewed as bragging.)

 

Because of the nature of commerce in the US there will always be the McDojo. There will always be the student who believes his instruction was valid only to have it invalidated in a qualified conflict on the street. And there will always be the teacher who shouldn't be teaching, teaching what he claims is effective martial arts.

 

Virtually free commerce allows those schools to exist.

 

That's why the martial arts in general have such a bad reputation. The examples of the few exemplify the many in the eyes of the public. We, however, know this is simply not true.

 

I have a friend, he is quite old now, he used to teach TKD in Korea, he used to teach the ROC army, and instruct US military personnel in hand-to-hand close quarters combat. Every six months he takes his school to korea(those that can afford the trip) to visit the schools there and see how traditional schools are. Traditional TKD schools in korea are of a different caliber than they are in the US.

 

However, commerce exists in South Korea as well and there are schools that follow a more Western approach to teaching. In my personal experience, having been to Seoul, traditional TKD students are a cut above most Western students. Their training is fundamentally different.

 

Now, to issue of fighting.

 

In a violent encounter you do not rise to the occasion. You fall to the highest level of your training. In the fight or flight mode your body enters you revert to the highest level of training you have done. This has been qualified by real-life violent encounters by law enforcement and military personnel across the world. This is why they train so much for so long. When their lives are on the line they do what they have been taught to do.

 

A martial artist will only perform as well as his training. It takes in the neighborhood of 3000-7000 concentrated repititions before an action becomes reflex. Have you trained with that much dedication in every technique you study?

 

What happens most often in violent attacks is the victim has not had enough training and practice to reinforce that training. So, when attacked reverts to the highest level of their dedication. Most black belts have only the programmed reflex action of their most basic techniques. This is what they revert to, and this is why many of them lose their conflicts.

 

Many things happen in fight or flight. Physiological, psychological, and physical. All of these have been studied and many of them are addressed in military and specialized combat training programs. Their students have been trained as to how their body will react and their training is molded around that and they are better equiped to survive.

 

The vast majority of martial arts schools do not address the actual moment of combat. i.e. what happens to the body (time distortions, intrusive thoughts, loss of control of bodily functions, tunnel vision, etc.) So, the vast majority of students are ill-equipped to handle a real life-threatening conflict.

 

This is an issue I addressed when I used to teach in the Philippines to law enforcement on a "private instruction" basis. Though I was not responsible for weapons training, and my training was done off the books(this is because foreigners are prohibited from working for government agencies) I did instruct many in close quarters combat.

 

For a martial arts student to be effective he must have proper training and proper practice. Most Western students just don't.

 

Mind set is important. Just simple mental visualisation of violent conflict helps develop reflex.

 

Quality is determined by the ability of the teacher and the dedication of the student. Without both quality is not achieved.

 

Hope this helps.

 

MA.

[ramymensa]

Amen or Osu

 

Interesting and valid points in your post. Indeed there are so many elements in this equation: succesful or sometimes unsuccesful encounter with an agressor. And before making statements some styles just suck, let's take these points you and others just presented and perhaps we'll have the real picture

[jmd161]

I've been reading the replys to this topic and i have to say some of the answers really make me laugh.

 

If you can't fight with one style how can you fight with two or three?

 

I think training has alot to do with it.Also the skill level of the teachers.Just because someone carries the title sensei/sifu does'nt mean they actually fully understand how to teach someone.If a teacher does'nt fully understand how to apply a technique then how can he teach others to apply it.Sounds crazy does'nt it ,but this is going on all over the world.

 

Yes i agree that you have alot of lazy people out there also.The difference between ancient times and now is.That back in ancient times your skill level in your art meant life or death.We don't use our martial arts that way anymore.Although we should train that way because if the time ever comes that you need to use your martial arts it will be life or death.

 

jeff

[omnifinite]

Many things happen in fight or flight. Physiological, psychological, and physical. All of these have been studied and many of them are addressed in military and specialized combat training programs. Their students have been trained as to how their body will react and their training is molded around that and they are better equiped to survive.

That's the part that's always concerned me far more than technique (what you know doesn't matter if you don't use it). I wish more schools focused on it. I know I could use more insight into it. I believe my training will focus on it more in the future, but right now I'm still working on the reflexes.

[Lucidartist]

I agree with Martial_Artists view on the question in the main but would say spirit is vastly important and I think spirit encompasses many of the things said about hard training etc.

 

I don't know how I'd honestly react to a life threatening situation in the street but I do know I get trained twice a week to deal with it. The main black belt sensi at my dojo has over 30 years experience in GoJo 20 in white crane and 15 thai chi add to that years on nightclubs doors and his security work for the royal mail.

 

With him you get so many things training to better your tech and your art and conditioning your body to take and give blows and improve your fighting spirit being a few key ones. I really don't know what hitting a person full bore would be like (and I'd rather not really find out) but I know what hitting a solid oak makewara (sp) is like so I know the shock and pain of that and have learnt to disreguard it.

 

I also can't truely tell if I'd feel all the impediments Martial_Artist mentioned in a real fight but I've been pushed to my limits in training. Had to fight when I'd been pushed so far my technique fell apart and I just had to rely on grit and the dregs of aggression.

 

We never pull our punches just always make sure we get out of the way. The 2nd black belt is a bit like a sargent major and just snaps to make everything feel real, pushing you and shouting at the top of his voice in your face. If I face something tougher in the real world it going to be very hard so I hope I never have to.