craknek Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Again, Did Kimura beat Gracie?? "A man can fail many times, but a man is not a failure until he blames someone else""I will not fear...Fear is the mind killer...I will let my fear pass right through me..." Dune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiu-jitsu fighter Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 yes but it was a match that lasted, 2 hours and 45 minutes. kimura, beat helio, with a "kimura" shoulder lock. helio was like 150lbs and kimura was like 200lbs. after the fight, Kimura was so impressed with Helio that he invited him to come train with him in japan. "When we go to the ground,you are in my world, the ground is the ocean, I am the shark,and most people don't even know how to swim" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craknek Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Now hold on JJF... a lil back, we were talking about greco roman wrestling, and you commented about how Gracie beat severn... a suggestion perhaps that BJJ is better then Greco Roman.. so with Kimura beating Gracie, perhaps I can suggest then , that Judo is better then BJJ... using your logic and philosphy of course "A man can fail many times, but a man is not a failure until he blames someone else""I will not fear...Fear is the mind killer...I will let my fear pass right through me..." Dune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyS Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 BJJ has changed and evolved immensley in the last 30 years, especially the last 10 years. BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black BeltTKD - Black Belt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craknek Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Ok.. Not following your point on that? "A man can fail many times, but a man is not a failure until he blames someone else""I will not fear...Fear is the mind killer...I will let my fear pass right through me..." Dune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_adjudication Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 craknek, Isn't it supposed to be: "I will not fear, Fear is the mind killer, I will face my fears, I will let them pass through me..." or was that just the mini-series? Back to the original question. The difference between jj schools is the same as the difference between any martal art. MA started their development long ago when some dude got in a fight, did something that worked and won. Remembering what he did, he then refined it, called it a technique and taught it to his family(clan, tribe, ryu, ect.). Put a bunch of technques together and you have a MA provided your family lives long enough to pass it down. All the jj schools out there had a collection of techniques, skills, tactics that worked and they lived (some technique being barrowed from other schools). There were jj schools that are not around today because of inferior technique or just bad luck. A martial art is nothing more that a set of military techniques (martial means "of or pertaining to Mars" the Roman God of war). What the US Army does with an M-16 or a tank is a martial art. Japanese martial arts originated in China. They were brought to China from India by the monk Da Mo (the Bodhidarma). The were probably brought to India by that Army of Alexander the Great. There are some out there who believe that Alex got the arts from roving bands of Celtic warriors. Since the Celts had no writen records there is no way of proving it. That's the difference between jj schools... "There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change; it is, 'To use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time.' " Gen. George S. Patton Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyS Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Craknek, I was merely pointing out that BJJ now is very different from when Helio fought Kimura. I will point out that Greco-Roman is a very powerful form of wrestling and getting suplexed onto your head will very quickly finish the fight. Randy Couture, former UFC Champion was very successful with it. BJJ - Black Belt under John Will (Machado)Shootfighting - 3rd Degree Black BeltTKD - Black Belt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craknek Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 I am glad someone recognizes the power of Greco Roman. Well, when I heard it Johnny, I was like "man, that sounds nifty.. Ilike that", however, I just changed it a lil bit, shortended it up... still the same effect =). "A man can fail many times, but a man is not a failure until he blames someone else""I will not fear...Fear is the mind killer...I will let my fear pass right through me..." Dune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJS Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Now hold on JJF... a lil back, we were talking about greco roman wrestling, and you commented about how Gracie beat severn... a suggestion perhaps that BJJ is better then Greco Roman.. so with Kimura beating Gracie, perhaps I can suggest then , that Judo is better then BJJ... using your logic and philosphy of course First off no one has said greco roman isint effective, but if they dont learn submissions they will proabably get caught in one.Gracie beat severn... a suggestion perhaps that BJJ is better then Greco Roman severn was ALOT bigger than royce, and dont try and say Severn understimated him, he wint into that night knowing Royce was the undefeated -undisputed champion of the UFC.Kimura beating Gracie, perhaps I can suggest then , that Judo is better then BJJ this is just the same, Helio was considered a huge underdog going against the much larger JJ champion and yet still put up an amazing fight. Kimura himself said -if a man so slight could resist for 3 minutes, he should be considered the winner of the matchboth matches point to the effectivness of BJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craknek Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 As far as Severn losing... He was past his prime. Severn did not fight like he did when he was younger, and that is fact. As he aged... he became more of a brute fighter... kinda like Tank Abbott. except more versatile and technical. As I said, I would have liked to see that fight with both in there prime.. As for gracie losing... the bottom line is, he lost. Just as JFF pointed out to me when gracie beat Severn. I mean, really, lets face it... why make excuses.. Severn lost, fair and square... and Gracie lost, fair and square... no excuses lol. As for Greco Roman not knowing submissons... I would like to see someone get slammed on there head... or suplexed onto something harder then a mat lol.. and freestyle greco roman does incorporate Some submissons....usually they require the attacker to get on top.. Nick "A man can fail many times, but a man is not a failure until he blames someone else""I will not fear...Fear is the mind killer...I will let my fear pass right through me..." Dune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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